Radical free speech is important and a cornerstone of the US. Yeah, you've got some real shitheads on voat but also a lot of decent people that just don't hold the previously approved PC opinions. The internet was way better before it began to coalesce into megacorps like google, fb, and reddit. Instead of defending free speech they caved to advertisers. The issue w/ that is someone is always pissed off by something and the smallest groups shout the loudest. Now we've got a situation that's gotten out of hand and even regular conservatives are targeted. Voat is basically a concentration camp for free speech online. They've rounded up all the "wrongthinkers" and sent them to one place.

Before reddit and that Mountain Dew (the hitler did nothing wrong naming contest) troll happened /pol/ was libertarian more or less believe it or not. The PC left is Frankenstein and Voat's their monster. Assholes were fewer and farther between online before they all got shipped to the same place.

When you start inventing shit like "micro aggressions" and telling everyone their racist nonstop... I could provide a thousand other examples. The left has even managed to bring back segregation on college campuses only this time they're called "safe spaces" and black only dorms.

The Radical Left and the Far Right are every bit as bad as each other and more alike than they are different. They both have a need to be authoritarian in order to stay in power. (Horseshoe Theory)

Reddit, Facebook, Youtube, Twitter, etc. have no shortage of racists. They've just got the "right kind" in our weird double-standard culture.

Radical free speech is important and a cornerstone of the US. Yeah, you've got some real shitheads on voat but also a lot of decent people that just don't hold the previously approved PC opinions. The internet was way better before it began to coalesce into megacorps like google, fb, and reddit. Instead of defending free speech they caved to advertisers. The issue w/ that is someone is always pissed off by something and the smallest groups shout the loudest. Now we've got a situation that's gotten out of hand and even regular conservatives are targeted. Voat is basically a concentration camp for free speech online. They've rounded up all the "wrongthinkers" and sent them to one place. Before reddit and that Mountain Dew (the hitler did nothing wrong naming contest) troll happened /pol/ was libertarian more or less believe it or not. The PC left is Frankenstein and Voat's their monster. Assholes were fewer and farther between online before they all got shipped to the same place. When you start inventing shit like "micro aggressions" and telling everyone their racist nonstop... I could provide a thousand other examples. The left has even managed to bring back segregation on college campuses only this time they're called "safe spaces" and black only dorms. The Radical Left and the Far Right are every bit as bad as each other and more alike than they are different. They both have a need to be authoritarian in order to stay in power. (Horseshoe Theory) Reddit, Facebook, Youtube, Twitter, etc. have no shortage of racists. They've just got the "right kind" in our weird double-standard culture.

38 comments

[–] E-werd 14 points (+14|-0)

I have no rebuttal to this, but I feel the common man is being forced to hold one extreme or the other and that’s no good. In a vacuum, most people you meet in person would end up claiming values that place them near the middle. That’s my experience, anyway.

[–] Owlchemy 7 points (+7|-0)

I agree. I'm more of a middle of the road right wing type myself. Now they say if you're in the middle of the road you just get run over. But to me, my philosophy has always been 'ya only get one shot at this life, so who am I to tell ya how to live yours.' IRL, most people are closer together than apart, I think, as you said.

[–] E-werd 7 points (+7|-0) Edited

Yeah, the key there being IRL. The internet is this magical place where people get to live out ideological fantasies. I think that explains tumblr, 4chan, and voat well enough. However, as we’ve been seeing in the past 5 years or so, these Internet personalities are bleeding into real life. Shits getting looney.

[–] PhuksNewfag 3 points (+3|-0)

my philosophy has always been 'ya only get one shot at this life, so who am I to tell ya how to live yours.

That's increasingly considered a radical opinion nowadays, especially if you apply the same attitude to finances ("Who am I to dictate how others spend their money").

[–] [Deleted] 8 points (+8|-0)

Very well said.

I used Voat for a long time and had some great connections on there. But I haven't had a good experience there in over a year. Being PC is not for me but what the majority of Voat has become is something I'm not.

[–] Owlchemy 7 points (+7|-0)

Good explanation. To me, the character of Voat itself has changed slowly but surely over time. I used to be able to easily ignore what I didn't like and cull out what I did. It's gotten to the point though that that's getting almost impossible. I'm a right wing type guy myself, but not an overly radical one ... plus the immaturity level has also gone up exponentially there. So now I'm figuring I'll lurk and see if they ever get an Atko type figure back that keeps the place worth bothering.

[–] seanking2919 5 points (+5|-0) Edited

Well said, saverem. It definitely is a big problem that Reddit, Google, Twitter, and Facebook resorted to caving to advertisers instead of defending freedom of speech. And thus, those who are the most frustrated with Reddit, Facebook, Google, and Twitter will often be the first ones to arrive at a new alternative that promises freedom of speech. There's nothing inherently wrong with it. Gab, a microblogging and free speech alternative to Twitter, currently has mostly conservative and "alt-right" users because they often are purged from Twitter. However, if the owners of the new platform decides to ban anyone who disagrees with their majority of users (or even the owners of the new platform), they become just as equally terrible as their competitor. And therefore, both sides would feel like concentration camps for different political extremes.

As much as I like Gab as a platform, I think too much of it is focused on politics currently. And because of that, most people who are looking at it from the outside will see it simply as some platform with a specific political label based on the majority of its users. It's unfortunate, but I sincerely do have hope that it will diversify over time.

I hope Phuks becomes a place where we can have civil political discourse, without getting into calling each other "Nazis" or "libtards," while also focusing on getting along with one another on different things besides our social and political views. And I feel like so far, Phuks has the right setup. A lot of the people here currently are very laid back and I've easily been able to talk about various topics here besides politics.

[–] Adhdferret 3 points (+3|-0)

You ever think that all those voices about hate were just the same people pretending to appear as many?

4chan has always been and will always be about influence. Think about it all those nerdy kids and shy girls that could be a completely different person and do so without consequence......now they can see if they have influence on the real world.

That is what the internet has become. An introverts paradise really.

99% of the element within online is completely different when you actually meet them. I know because I have over and over again. Back in my Reddit days when I was into buying, selling, and trading Lego I met with a great deal of Reddit users.

Almost all of them admitted they had alt accounts to hide their identity from the Lego crowd. I never understood how they could be ashamed of their true self or would pretend it doesn't exist.

I always kept one user name (until they were shadow banned for wrong think). Even on Voat. If I don't like a specific group of people I admitted it. If I did then I admitted that as well. No reason to hide from it as that is just who I am and if you didn't like it then so be it.

Partly why I don't speak to any of them anymore. They said I was too obvious about it online and in public.

So what......least I am honest about it.

[–] PhuksNewfag 1 points (+1|-0)

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." Oscar wilde

I think it's wrong to assume that the places that provide free speech and anonymity or pseudonymity do not reflect real people's opinions.

That they act differently in real life might just be because they're afraid to lose their job or depending on where they live may face even worse consequences.

Also in my opinion the people on 4chan or 8chan are much nicer to each other even if they use harsher language than the people on facebook, since everyone is anonymous you cannot insult another persons looks, religion, color, past opinions, sex etc. since all these things are hidden from you. You can insult groups you don't like but you cannot really insult individuals you're having a conversation with.

Facebook is pretty much the opposite. You cannot insult groups because it's wrongthink but can backtalk and bicker with individuals.

[–] E-werd 0 points (+0|-0)

I think it's wrong to assume that the places that provide free speech and anonymity or pseudonymity do not reflect real people's opinions.

I get what you're saying, but I disagree. I would define a person's real self as the one you'll see in the real world. All things that matter take place in the real world, outside of the internet. Politicians are real people, your coworkers are real people, your friends are real people. Sure, they may have different views in their minds than they admit to outwardly, but what does it matter if they would never act on it? What's a powerful bark if the dog will never bite?

[–] Adhdferret 0 points (+0|-0)

Ok so let's say you are right about the loss of a job or whatever......they are obviously living a lie and will never be happy. Since I have left Reddit and became a part of Voat I have made it obvious of my views to my employer with things.

With my most recent job it was WELL known of my views upon blacks. Thing is that I didn't let it effect my job performance, but you can bet I skated the line. I say that because provocation is the game people play and blacks do it the worst.

I wouldn't discuss my views while on company time, and I wasn't disrespectful with it either I was just assertive and I will always be. They never had a problem with it at all. They did have a problem with paying for my injury I got so I sued them and won.

Far as 4chan being nice......no they are all about influence and provocation to amuse themselves. It is played off as the mentality, but this is just how movements are.

Weak people seek a leader and every so often one pops up on 4chan so they use influence to entertain their fantasy. It is pathetic and I will always view Anon as that.

Same with people that switch user names on platforms.

[–] Grammar-Rabbi 3 points (+3|-0) Edited

I'm going to agree and disagree.

It seems true to me that, if the mainstream censors all the speech related to one end of the political spectrum, those on that end are going to congregate in the few places that still allow their speech. Since they'll be funneled into overwhelming numbers in those few platforms, they will essentially have radicalization camps. Places like /pol/ and Voat have served that function.

However, I think Horseshoe Theory is a pretty flawed idea. Both the Left and the Right are extremely complicated relationships among sets of ideas and perspectives (in their totality, of course there will be the simple-minded on both sides). Horseshoe Theory basically simplifies them down to one small subset of perspectives on which they share some common ground, and says, "See? They're the same!" It's much like saying that religious fundamentalists and militant atheists are basically the same, since they both like to talk about God(s), but most other people don't really talk about it that much.

There are a myriad of fundamental differences between the extreme Left and Right at this moment - including their ideas on equality and hierarchy, on human biodiversity, on merit, on ideal polities, on the relationship between out-groups and in-groups, on family structure, etc etc etc. Horseshoe Theory misses so much of those fundamental differences by oversimplifying the whole situation. Even where they agree - mainly on the basic acceptance of authoritarianism and identity politics - their perspectives are vastly different and highly nuanced in incompatible ways.

I think they are a lot more different than they are alike.

[–] KFCNyanCat 0 points (+0|-0)

I feel like horseshoe theory refers to methods more than ideas. For example, you'll find more violence on the far ends of the political spectrum than the center.

[–] ninjajunkie 1 points (+1|-0)

Precisely why I made this account. I'm definitely on the right, but when your worried posting about your new laptop (because of Win10) will get you labeled a shill, things are extreme. Because of the circumstances that brought us to vote, I understand the hardline politics and discussion , but those aren't the only things I'm interested in. For the past 6 months at least, it seems every topic on Voat just goes back to politics.

FTR I hate windows but barely know shit about linux and do not have the time to teach my wife, who the laptop was for. Realizing the hesitation I had wanting to start a discussion, knowing it would turn political fast, made me rethink where I spend my time.

[–] Grammar-Rabbi 0 points (+0|-0)

I used to use Linux a bit, and if I may make a suggestion -

There are distributions of Linux, like Ubuntu, that are basically as intuitive as Windows and the interface is similar in a lot of basic ways. If you ever wanted to see if you like it and if your wife could use it, you could partition part of your hard drive (if you don't know how to do that, there are a million guides on the internet and it's pretty simple), then download Ubuntu Linux and install it on the partition. That way, you could try it out for free and see if it works for you, without giving up access to Windows on the computer if you want. Then, if you really get into it, you could always read some of the numerous guides on the internet for how to use all the extra abilities and features of Linux, or you could just keep using it as is like you'd use Windows.

There's actually a number of Linux distributions whose interfaces have been developed and simplified so that pretty much anyone with experience using Windows could probably figure out how to do the same stuff there. The only downside is that there is so much software that's made for Windows but not Linux.

[–] ninjajunkie 1 points (+1|-0)

That's definitely an idea I didn't think of. It's a great laptop, but only came with a 256GB SSD (sacrificed storage for VRAM). It's got an empty bay so once I can get a 2TB one installed, I'll have to set aside a chunk to play with.

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