The reason for a decrease in immigration from say Mexico, is because they have a lower unemployment rate than the US does currently.
If that's the reason for immigration, why did the caravan refuse Mexico's offer of employment? There's more to it than jobs.
A few years ago the state of Georgia tried an experiment with parolees and agriculture jobs
Parolees. That's not much of an incentive. Being homeless and having someone at home to take care of is a stronger incentive, wouldn't you say? I would say that it's generally not a fair comparison to base the entirety of your "immigrates for work" argument. Give someone enough incentive and enough pay and they absolutely will last as long as anyone else.
Many of them don't plan to be permanent residents or want to be, they just want to make money for their families back home.
You know that that generally devalues the host country currency, right?
I don't think knowledge of English is a requirement to immigrate to the US
I just looked that up and it just so happens that I was wrong! TIL, thank you.
I'm arguing that the manual laborers should have more visas available (currently H-2A is less than 200k a year)
I see your point but I'm still not convinced that this is a good thing. I'm not saying you can't change my mind. I'm saying that you haven't.
If that's the reason for immigration, why did the caravan refuse Mexico's offer of employment? There's more to it than jobs.
I've stated that previously. I think that the people in the caravan have valid reasons to be fleeing their home countries even if the caravan is being used for something different. These are desperate people to risk everything to try and come to the US in hopes of a better and safer life.
The Georgia experiment was expanded to those on unemployment and no one would work those jobs. There is a stigma in the US that manual labor jobs aren't an honest career to pursue because the hours are long and the pay is too low (even though it's usually above minimum wage). Historically many Americans see manual labor jobs as something for second class citizens and immigrants (slaves, then the Irish, then the Chinese...). So if Americans are refusing to work those jobs then someone is needed until the stigma is broken.
My reason for upping the limits for H-2A visas is that the migrant crews that are here on visas clearly isn't enough. The crews end up being a mix of illegal and legal workers. Most the farmers know what's going on as well but since they deal with the legal crew bosses and house the ones with visas, they turn a blind eye to the illegals on the crews. The system is broken and the farmers already have a ton of hurdles to jump just to get the ones that have visas. Raise the visa numbers and make it easier for the farmers to navigate the process and the demand for illegals will drop. I'm sure the same problems exist in construction. For landscapers they also need to make the visa process simpler and more landscapers would probably use it. In Atlanta the landscapers are hard pressed to find American workers that are hardworking and trustworthy so they're more willing to take a chance on an illegal standing at a gas station looking for work (that's a damn sight to see 50 Hispanics at a gas station waiting for work). Fix the system otherwise it will keep happening regardless of a wall being built or not.
I've stated that previously. I think that the people in the caravan have valid reasons to be fleeing their home countries even if the caravan is being used for something different. These are desperate people to risk everything to try and come to the US in hopes of a better and safer life.
So why aren't they gonna go all the way to Canada where healthcare is essentially free? Why not go to other countries? Like I said, your explanation is a gross over-simplification.
expanded to those on unemployment
Again, why would someone who gets unemployment go from whatever area of expertise they were in to a field, make potentially less? If they wanted to work in agriculture, they would have chosen to go there. And if they're on unemployment, they're still getting benefits. Again, not much of an incentive.
There is a stigma in the US that manual labor jobs aren't an honest career to pursue because the hours are long and the pay is too low (even though it's usually above minimum wage).
There's nothing wrong with manual labor. It doesn't pay high, partially because of non-competative pay.
Historically many Americans see manual labor jobs as something for second class citizens and immigrants (slaves, then the Irish, then the Chinese...).
Those people are flat out stupid. I don't want to clean toilets for a living but if it pays my bills, I'd go to that job every day just like I do with my current job now. I'm not keen on working out in a field but I would, nevermind that I practically get sunburned just walking by an open window in the middle of the day.
So if Americans are refusing to work those jobs then someone is needed until the stigma is broken.
Not having an incentive such as reasonable pay is not the same as refusing. Why should anyone go out into a field with backbreaking work when it won't pay the bills? This where that whole "artificially depressed wages" thing comes in. I guarantee that if working in a field paid $50K+, you'd have a lot more out there. So far, all these experiments have done is show that two groups of people without incentive have no desire to work those jobs. What a surprise.
My reason for upping the limits for H-2A visas is that the migrant crews that are here on visas clearly isn't enough.
I understand what you're saying. I'm not without empathy on that. But I've also seen my field almost completely decimated by visas. You and I are likely to never agree on that.
they turn a blind eye to the illegals on the crews
They are willfully breaking the law.
Just as an update, making a new reply so I know you'll see this instead of editing and maybe missing it:
I've stated that previously. I think that the people in the caravan have valid reasons to be fleeing their home countries even if the caravan is being used for something different. These are desperate people to risk everything to try and come to the US in hopes of a better and safer life.
http://archive.is/xhqi9#selection-955.1-955.403
What the president of Honduras told me is that the caravan was organized by leftist organizations, political activists within Honduras, and he said it was being funded by outside groups, and even from Venezuela," Pence told Fox News in an interview late Friday in Yuma, Arizona. "So the American people, I think, see through this – they understand this is not a spontaneous caravan of vulnerable people"
Huh. We'll see, yeah? The President of Honduras has had two days to refute that. He hasn't.
That puts things in an interesting light.
The reason for a decrease in immigration from say Mexico, is because they have a lower unemployment rate than the US does currently. When other countries have low unemployment rates we tend to see less people coming to the US just to find a job. That said, if the manual labor dependent business continue to see demand for their sevices grow then we will see an uptick in people crossing.
A few years ago the state of Georgia tried an experiment with parolees and agriculture jobs. They set them up with farmers, with the industry pay rate, for a harvest. They worked alongside legal migrant workers to see if parolees could replace some of the migrants. Guess how long the parolees lasted? If you guessed less than a day you would be correct, every parolee quit by the end of the first day because it was too hot, too hard, and the migrants were outpacing them. Almost every American crew member I worked with in landscaping was the either the laziest on the crew or screwed up things the most. I'm arguing that the manual laborers should have more visas available (currently H-2A is less than 200k a year) to them and for longer than 6 months or a year. Many of them don't plan to be permanent residents or want to be, they just want to make money for their families back home.
I don't think knowledge of English is a requirement to immigrate to the US; it is a requirement for naturalization. Many of those parents are learning English from their children and understand it but they aren't comfortable enough to speak it or admit that they speak it.