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27 comments

[–] Butler_crosley 0 points (+0|-0)

If that's the reason for immigration, why did the caravan refuse Mexico's offer of employment? There's more to it than jobs.

I've stated that previously. I think that the people in the caravan have valid reasons to be fleeing their home countries even if the caravan is being used for something different. These are desperate people to risk everything to try and come to the US in hopes of a better and safer life.

The Georgia experiment was expanded to those on unemployment and no one would work those jobs. There is a stigma in the US that manual labor jobs aren't an honest career to pursue because the hours are long and the pay is too low (even though it's usually above minimum wage). Historically many Americans see manual labor jobs as something for second class citizens and immigrants (slaves, then the Irish, then the Chinese...). So if Americans are refusing to work those jobs then someone is needed until the stigma is broken.

My reason for upping the limits for H-2A visas is that the migrant crews that are here on visas clearly isn't enough. The crews end up being a mix of illegal and legal workers. Most the farmers know what's going on as well but since they deal with the legal crew bosses and house the ones with visas, they turn a blind eye to the illegals on the crews. The system is broken and the farmers already have a ton of hurdles to jump just to get the ones that have visas. Raise the visa numbers and make it easier for the farmers to navigate the process and the demand for illegals will drop. I'm sure the same problems exist in construction. For landscapers they also need to make the visa process simpler and more landscapers would probably use it. In Atlanta the landscapers are hard pressed to find American workers that are hardworking and trustworthy so they're more willing to take a chance on an illegal standing at a gas station looking for work (that's a damn sight to see 50 Hispanics at a gas station waiting for work). Fix the system otherwise it will keep happening regardless of a wall being built or not.

[–] ScorpioGlitch 0 points (+0|-0) Edited

I've stated that previously. I think that the people in the caravan have valid reasons to be fleeing their home countries even if the caravan is being used for something different. These are desperate people to risk everything to try and come to the US in hopes of a better and safer life.

So why aren't they gonna go all the way to Canada where healthcare is essentially free? Why not go to other countries? Like I said, your explanation is a gross over-simplification.

expanded to those on unemployment

Again, why would someone who gets unemployment go from whatever area of expertise they were in to a field, make potentially less? If they wanted to work in agriculture, they would have chosen to go there. And if they're on unemployment, they're still getting benefits. Again, not much of an incentive.

There is a stigma in the US that manual labor jobs aren't an honest career to pursue because the hours are long and the pay is too low (even though it's usually above minimum wage).

There's nothing wrong with manual labor. It doesn't pay high, partially because of non-competative pay.

Historically many Americans see manual labor jobs as something for second class citizens and immigrants (slaves, then the Irish, then the Chinese...).

Those people are flat out stupid. I don't want to clean toilets for a living but if it pays my bills, I'd go to that job every day just like I do with my current job now. I'm not keen on working out in a field but I would, nevermind that I practically get sunburned just walking by an open window in the middle of the day.

So if Americans are refusing to work those jobs then someone is needed until the stigma is broken.

Not having an incentive such as reasonable pay is not the same as refusing. Why should anyone go out into a field with backbreaking work when it won't pay the bills? This where that whole "artificially depressed wages" thing comes in. I guarantee that if working in a field paid $50K+, you'd have a lot more out there. So far, all these experiments have done is show that two groups of people without incentive have no desire to work those jobs. What a surprise.

My reason for upping the limits for H-2A visas is that the migrant crews that are here on visas clearly isn't enough.

I understand what you're saying. I'm not without empathy on that. But I've also seen my field almost completely decimated by visas. You and I are likely to never agree on that.

they turn a blind eye to the illegals on the crews

They are willfully breaking the law.

[–] Butler_crosley 0 points (+0|-0)

And if they're on unemployment, they're still getting benefits. Again, not much of an incentive.

In Georgia unemployment benefits can only be collected for 14-20 weeks so the DoL pushes people to take any job regardless of if it's in your preferred career path. And the benefits aren't something you can live off. The incentive of making more money than you receive from unemployment is a pretty good incentive in my book. Also since agriculture tends to be away from large cities, the cost of living is pretty significantly lower. Example, I can find a 3 bedroom/2 bathroom house on over a half acre of land near me for $900/month while a one bedroom studio apartment in Atlanta runs the same amount.

Reasonable pay means different things in different areas and if the farmers raise their labor rates then they will lose money farming because they don't get to set their selling price. That's determined in Chicago on the futures market or some overseas futures market. And with the damn tariff war with China, a lot of farmers are being impacted right now. They can't afford to be raising labor rates right now. People have to accept that some jobs can't pay higher wages because the profit margins are already thin. Either they need to accept that agriculture is low paying for hard work or accept that migrants are going to be used to fill those jobs because the migrants are happy to have a job in the US.

H-1B visas definitely need to be fixed because there is too much room in there for abuse of the system, as evidenced in your experiences in your career field. That's something I don't have an answer for because I tend to work in the horticulture which is generally tied to Agriculture.

[–] ScorpioGlitch 0 points (+0|-0)

The benefits of unemployment absolutely can take care of all of your expenses for the month if you're not blowing up your debt to income ratio including your other monthly expenses. In other words, living within your means. I've done it. It's based on your previous 12 months of income (or the last 12 months you were employed if you're unemployed longer than a year).

Department of labor does not push you to take any job. They require you to apply to jobs, starting in your field but applying to any job is allowed. They then also flat out tell you "Don't take just any job because if you have to quit or leave, you can't get back on unemployment until XYZ".

I live in a city. My 4 bedroom, 2 bath, 1 acre is $842 before insurance/taxes. It's all on the market.

People have to accept that some jobs can't pay higher wages because the profit margins are already thin.

And that's the problem. People are used to artificially low prices caused by uneven trade prices, artificially depressed wages.

because I tend to work in the horticulture

Whoa, what do you do? That's a field that's I've always been curious to examine (but not learn or work in). Just the idea of looking at different plants and knowing loads about them is appealing to me.