If you insist they give up their culture immediately you will be seen as trying to take away their culture. Just like how gun rights advocates perceive attacks on gun culture.
Solidarity is a normal reaction to real or perceived hostility. In history the social pressure to assimilate resulted in immigrant collectivism in order to support each other; Chinatowns, little Italy and a myriad other ethnic enclaves formed partly because of this pressure.
What we are currently dealing with, is unrestricted immigration.
Not true. Not even slightly true. But don't take my word for it.
How America's refugee process works
How Germany's refugee process works
How UK's refugee process works
How Canada's refugee process works
Well thats just it. If they would use these laws, then I'm okay. But they are not. Justin Trudeau has decided to ignore them. We have people crossing the border from the US every day now. Once they cross, we just set them up. He is rushing the Syrian refugees as well.
You can quote the laws and procedures all day. But my own government has decided its okay to ignore their own laws. They are not even trying to hide it. Its being praised in our news. They are hailing it like some kind of great thing that our government is doing.
My government is ignoring the law. Then they are creating new laws to silence the people who are speaking out against their actions.
And that right there boils it down to why there is a growing number of people getting really pissed off.
EDIT: Plus, you cannot be serious thinking Germany is actually vetting anyone coming into their country right now. They just have their borders open.
If they would use these laws, then I'm okay. But they are not. Justin Trudeau has decided to ignore them. We have people crossing the border from the US every day now. Once they cross, we just set them up. He is rushing the Syrian refugees as well.
But what is your evidence for this? Reports in the news? There are also news reports detailing the procedure that refugees must go through after being referred from UN refugee camps. Edit to add: news is not good evidence because it is biased toward sensationalism and extraordinary occurrences.
What evidence do you have for masses crossing from the US? In order to "set them up" these US illegals would have to go through the screening process to be approved for assistance, and they would be discovered to be illegal.
The collectivism is what helps them keep their culture while they assimilate. This new wave of "accept the Muslims" is totally different because of the weak, everyone get a participation award, mentality. Muslims are not assimilating at all, yet want everyone else to live the way they do! Believe the same things they do. I see it day in and out. When you've worked in a Muslim dense area for a few years please come back and tell us what you've seen.
Muslims are not assimilating at all, yet want everyone else to live the way they do! Believe the same things they do.
First, I'm glad you framed the fear in terms of religion instead of ethnicity. It's more honest than pretending these immigrants are different than all others in history.
Second, I get more pressure from Christians, Jehovah's Witnesses, consumerists, stoners, drunks, and Greenpeace to "live the way they do" and "believe the same things they do." There are proselytizers in every group.
And you are being hypocritical. You are pressuring Muslims to "live the way you do" even while you complain that they do it to you.
The reason I'm not being hypocritical is that I'm not of the belief that Muslims should totally see and believe the way Americans do. What I'm saying is that they don't mesh at all with any culture at all.
Immigrants are expected to somewhat assimilate and that's how it has always worked.
That is also why o don't call them immigrants but soldiers looking to occupy other nations.
Again, come back when you've lived with them and actually see with your own eyes how they live. I'm sure it is easy for you to pass your self righteous judgements from on top of you high horse.
You are assuming I live in an area without Muslim immigrants.
What I'm saying is that they don't mesh at all with any culture at all.
My experience has been the opposite. Generalizations and stereotypes are harmful.
I have seen immigrant Muslim comedians, cashiers, restaurantiers and entrepreneurs. I have seen Muslim women in western dress and makeup. I have seen immigrant Muslim children with all the toys and brands that other kids have.
Our anecdotes support my point: if the host culture is hostile people cling more tightly to their ways, the familiar that provides security and comfort.
The collectivism is what helps them keep their culture while they assimilate.
I'm not of the belief that Muslims should totally see and believe the way Americans do.
Immigrants are expected to somewhat assimilate and that's how it has always worked.
Yes that is my original point: if you accept and help immigrants they assimilate faster. Pressuring them to abandon their familiar culture for an alien one hinders assimilation (in response they seek support from more friendly people: other immigrants).
@phoxy (and everyone else), it might be more constructive if you provide specific examples of cultural behaviour on the border of what you think should and shouldn't be tolerated.
There's a spectrum that runs from tasty kebabs to horrific unlawful behaviour. What are two or more examples that illustrate where your line is?
I don't think there should be any codification of what behavior should be tolerated. Refugees and immigrants entered by legitimate process, they should have the same rights as everyone else: to do whatever they like that's not illegal, believe however they like and even to campaign for change. Equal rights, especially by the law. Anything else creates a secondary class of people with fewer rights.
(Leaving aside that courts have defended human rights of non citizen visitors and illegals.)
Well, I agree my line is pretty much what's legal. I suspect everyone in this thread basically agrees with us on this point. (Of course nations are free to adjust their laws in what some might consider discriminatory ways, as France has done with Burqa bans.) Some like to demonize migrants and hence assume that their 'culture' involves illegal activity - so the manner in which criminal activity is treated is somewhat relevant:
In this regard I'm not so convinced about having exactly the same rights as everyone else. Countries do distinguish between the rights of citizens and the rights of various classes of more temporary residents - second-class citizens exist everywhere. Some European countries seem to be doing more than their fair share when it comes to refugees, and suffering some social stress as a result - if they wish to be less generous in future I think this is understandable. I also think refugees who are lucky enough to be accepted into a foreign country should have some natural obligation not to act against it or its citizens for some period of time. In that sense a serious crime committed by a refugee might not be considered equal to the same crime by a citizen, sadly there are many others who would gladly take that person's privileged place and not similarly burden the host country.
You are an absolute fool. They do not assimilate. Their parents indoctrinate them with their world view.
Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
And history shows that I'm right. The Irish, Dutch, German, Italian, Polish, Ukranian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Indian, Phillipine and many other immigration waves have come, each met with your attitude, and each has become part of the culture and their children more so.
Your disgusting attitude of acceptance will result in population replacement.
Defending yourself= giving up your eight year old brides. OKAY
Immigrants that go through the proper process of getting into a country are a totally different story. The country makes sure they will benefit society. The immigrants bring something to the table to benefit the society. They want to join the society, and have something to gain in the success of that society. They do not have plans to simply leech off of the host society.
What we are currently dealing with, is unrestricted immigration. They are just flooding in without any regard to their benefit to the society, or even their motives for coming into the country. This is a slap in the face to the real immigrants that spend so much time and money trying to get in through the system. They see these other immigrants just walking across the border without having to jump through the same hoops.
I don't think many people have an issue with proper immigration. But the current immigration problem is something separate. There is no regard for the host society.
Immigrants that want to join a society are expected to assimilate, because they want to join the society. If they like it so much, assimilate. If you don't like it, stay out. Its very simple. Its not racist. Its not what-the-fuck-ever-phobic. They made the decision to join the society. They have an obligation to assimilate to that society. Otherwise, stay in your current society, if you love it so much.