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40 comments

[–] CDanger [OP] 1 points (+1|-0)

I don't have a negative opinion of you--or really any opinion for that matter. My diatribes here are against the likes of Faucci, Cuomo, Newsom, CDC, Gates, WHO, etc, so unless you're one of these "leaders", I'm not belittling you. In fact I'd be pretty curious to hear your thoughts on this so long as it is something beyond how we should trust these people because they're so smart.

What our leaders should have done was something like this

  • Experts give honest health advice about the science and don't overstep their lane out into economics, politics, etc. I want to hear facts and data from our scientists answering questions like "what is the percentage change of transmission if I'm in a room with an infected person that is 27m3 for 5 minutes". Or "What is the chance of transmission for a symptomatic vs unsymptomatic carrier". And related questions like, "what happens to those chances if the room is ventilated?" Answers to that will inform me of my best choices of behavior, not stupid and counterproductive bans on going to the beach or closing the park. Ditto with masks, 6ft distancing, etc. I want hard science about what we know and don't know, not dumbed-down political action and coercion.
  • Leaders practice good leadership--there are tons of things to cover here
    • humble and admit when we don't know something
    • don't tell "white lies" for "the greater good"
    • give advice and suggestions but not force and coercion
    • encourage us to be understanding of other and respectful of others in these trying times rather than breeding an us vs them mentality, even if the media, corporations, and politicians seems to be on your side at the moment so it is politically convenient to take their blood diamond of assistance
  • Encourage advice for healthy lifestyles, not just jump on whatever miracle drug or pill the pharma industry can make money on. CDC and Faucci should encourage these to save lives instead of harping on and on about antivaxers
    • healthy diet
    • reduce obesity
    • sunlight and fresh air
    • exercise
    • strong social bonds and support networks

That's what solid leadership in a crisis is, not forceful mandates and powergrabs. It's all so incredibly basic and obvious that I really don't see how these leaders and experts can be so detached.

[–] [Deleted] 0 points (+0|-0)

there is a calculator out there somewhere that calculates everything in that first point. it was released about a year ago by some university iirc and its not perfect but it gives you a general idea based off of their models. i don't remember where it was or what it was called but if you remind me tomorrow i'll go find it.

the second point is fine but noteworthy that trump, the leader at the time, also admittedly engaged in all of those. nice of you to leave him out of your diatribes.

to my knowledge, they have consistently recommended healthy lifestyle choices, its not their fault you don't read that part.

i have a hard time getting past your ego. if its basic and obvious, chances are they are aware of it too and for reasons outside your scope they choose the direction they choose, right or wrong.

[–] CDanger [OP] 1 points (+1|-0)

there is a calculator out there somewhere that calculates everything in that first point. it was released about a year ago by some university iirc and its not perfect but it gives you a general idea based off of their models. i don't remember where it was or what it was called but if you remind me tomorrow i'll go find it.

Yup, we might have seen the same one. The one I played with was some a university in Germany, and by messing around with the parameters I saw there was very, very little risk of transmission unless I'm in a sealed box with 10 other people for an hour doing choir practice. So all the idiots walking around on the sidewalk with masks, running to the other side of the street like I had the plague, or wearing masks while alone in their own cars immediately struck me as antiscientific NPCs. The health leaders have treated us like complete idiots with their stupid jingos of 6ft and wear a mask. I quickly realized I had zero real chance of exposure with my lifestyle, but people still don't understand that good ventilation is just about all you need even a year later. That shows a massive misunderstanding of messaging from the experts.

the second point is fine but noteworthy that trump, the leader at the time, also admittedly engaged in all of those. nice of you to leave him out of your diatribes.

Just about the only thing Trump did clearly right was shut down entry from the Chinese. Just about all he did egregiously wrong was choosing masks to be the hill to die on. I don't need to say much about him because the media has fairly and unfairly beat that horse dead several times over. I don't endorse cults of personality either, so in general I won't defend or praise specific individuals, and I'm not going to endorse just about any leaders handling of covid. The leaders who did it best at least didn't give into the hysteria and shut everything down.

to my knowledge, they have consistently recommended healthy lifestyle choices, its not their fault you don't read that part.

Not really in relation to covid. Sure if you get on the WHO or CDC website I'm sure you can find some pages about how those are important, but it's not at all a core point of their covid messaging. Their covid messaging is all about the medicalisation of it (pills, vaccines, hospitals, masks, 6ft).

if its basic and obvious, chances are they are aware of it too and for reasons outside your scope they choose the direction they choose, right or wrong.

I'd love to hear those reasons. I really would. But that's quite a generous assumption that you're making that they somehow have this superhuman insight into all this in their minds while their actions and predictions were wrong. Occam's razor suggests this is not the case. They're human and fallible, and expertise in one narrow subject doesn't make you better at making decisions in general. If you're right though, they could have just been honest and treated us like adults and we wouldn't have to speculate now on their thought patterns or motivations.

They've actually spoken about all of this at enough length that we can get a pretty idea about what they claim to believe and how they claim to make decisions. As I've already referenced a few times, Faucci has admitted to lying about the masks at the beginning to preserve supply because he thought it was a white lie for the greater good. Like the parachute RCT I referenced, it's pretty easy to decipher the WHO and CDC statements since that's the frame through which they see the world. So I think the real conspiracy theory here is the 5D chess you suggest they're playing where they lied about lying so they could really look out for our health since...

Not about covid specifically, but you should check out the writing of Nassim Taleb if you haven't already. His books cover a lot of these kind of points about chance, experts, expected results, and incentives. It's a good way for thinking about which experts are likely to know what they're talking about and which are just salesmen, conmen, lucky, opportunists, or talking heads. It turns out that spotting bullshit is much easier than fixing tough problems, but sometimes "do no harm" is the solution; if everyone out there is busy drinking themselves silly, you can be the smartest person in the room by just not picking up the bottle.

[–] [Deleted] 0 points (+0|-0)

Not really in relation to covid

no, they definitely said numerous times during the press conferences last year that healthy lifestyle choices were the best defense.

The leaders who did it best at least didn't give into the hysteria and shut everything down.

tell that to new zealand and australia.

i'm not trying to say they are doing a perfect job but they are doing the best they can in a hard situation. its not reasonable to expect no push back but its also still not reasonable to make up your own story about who these people are and what makes them tick that suits your own political desires.