5

13 comments

OK, my mistake. They still did alright, but not as well as I thought.

It's a confusing system you use, but seems to be far more democratic than what we have in the Americas.

I wish Canada would start using coalitions. We're a dominantly left leaning population that ends up with a conservative government as often as not because of our less than representative system.
Note that when I say left, it is closer to a European style left and less like the authoritarian left that has infected the American Democratic party. But we are sliding that way.

Our current Liberal (TM) overlords promised electoral reform, but that was just a lie to get into office.

I am becoming so jaded. I want the best for you because I would love to see someone end up with a mature and democratic representation.

Good luck.

[–] Boukert [OP] 2 points (+2|-0)

It's a lot better then the two party dictatorships in the Americas in my opinion.

  • The system represents minorities

  • promotes cooperation

  • is 100% democratic

  • offers nuance

  • if you disagree with a party you voted on, you can switch to a likeminded party instead of having to walk over the line towards the other side.

It also has drawbacks:

  • we do not directly choose our PM

  • With cooperation and coalition come compromises


TBH I am happy Wilders didn't win big, I was dreading this. Imagine how the Turkey crisis would go if Wilders would be the PM versus Erdogan....

I also like being in the EU and see the tremendous profits for a trading country like ours in an open bordered EU. Leaving will cost us so many $ it would wreck us.

[–] Skyrock 2 points (+2|-0)

I like free trade and travel too, but it doesn't require the EU in its current form. There is also EFTA which was competing with the fledgling EU for a long while, and still exists with Iceland, Norway, Switzerland and Liechtenstein as member states (and possibly UK as a future member).

Personally I want to see the EU fall. I understand your view, and would probably share it if I lived there. But from a selfish point of view, anything that helps or enables globalization is not something I want to see succeed. I am lucky enough to live in one of the few countries that could be 100% self sufficient. So the idea of tying our fates to an unstable global economy scares me. As recent history has shown,when your stability depends on your neighbors behaving themselves, things can and will be chaotic.

I get that most of the world does not have the luxury of self sufficiency and must count on their neighbors. So for them the pros outweigh the cons. But we're in a better position for it, and would be better off with an isolated economy.

And as far as Turkey goes, you are right that it will be less turbulent this way. But I don't see it solving the problem, just prolonging it. I hope I am wrong, but I think sooner or later the Turks are going to have to be dealt with in a decisive manner. Delaying that is more likely to make it worse when shit does go down. I may be wrong about that, and I hope I am. But I fear I'm not.

[–] Boukert [OP] 1 points (+1|-0)

As a Canadian that is easily said. You got a massive land and resources. But let me sketch you my world.

I live in the north west of NL. "far from our landborders". If I step in my car and drive 2 hours i can be in Bel and GER, 3 hours and I got FRA, LUX. 6 hours and I can reach UK, DEN, Czech, Pol, Aus and Swi if I drive fast without traffic and 10-12 i can be in 3/4 of EU, by car.

I bet you would just have passed the state border and in the worse case you'd be in Yankville or speaking weirdy French! .^

Imagine having a trucking company and having to deal with beaurocratic nonsense on every of those bordercrosses. Having 4-5 different kinds of currency and having to exchange those for tariffs everytime. Qualified personell looking for a job in a sector that has demand and being able to move there. Get education of a certain level for your children, good food and infra. Being able to retire on the warm coast of Spain or Italy without losing healthcare benifits or standerds


I am not for TPP or globalism per se. I am for a free united zone where everyone has the same core rights and liberties. As a Dutchman and WW2 in mind (we are still paying off the massive debt for our rebuild, and it lies heavily on our political budget) also see the importance of the EU in light of our warthorn past. NL was never really the warmongering type on landbased Europe, rather stay neutral and fuck abroad. But that last blow kinda hurt. I still remember the fear for the Russians, bombshelters and conscriptions for all males from the 80's and early 90's. Tying economies together makes war futile, which is worth a whole lot in a highly evolved and populated area.

I think a French or German politician said something along the lines of this at a remembrance in the 2000's

"Our Fathers, Grandfathers and their fathers have fought eachother, for the first time in history our generations have not stood opposite of eachother in arms"

Roughly what I remember but i cant seem to find the quote

Not saying the EU in it's current form is good. It needs a lot of adjusting to function but remember; it's a very young organisation doing "the unthinkable" in Europe from the mind of someone growing up in the early 1900's