Cuomo on his 'inartful' remark: 'Of course America is great'

[–] CDanger 1 points (+1|-0)

Both of our claims really contain exagerated strawman arguments and generalizations, so let's see if we can be more precise this time.

I'm not aware of anybody claiming American perfection. Those on the right tend to celebrate both America's current position in the world and its history. Perhaps the right does this more than is strictly warranted, but a growing position of the left's response doesn't try to claim the rational high ground but rather to oppose any position that the right and Trump support. Nothing new with irrational or hypocritical opposition (both parties do this when the opposition has the Presidency). What is new is that the left used to compete with the right in the game of supurlative praises of the country, but now it is very, very unfashionable to do so for them. This change seemed to happen sometime around the second Obama term; pre-election and first-term Obama sounded like a standard but hopeful politician who wanted to improve the country while Obama on the way out sounded more jaded and disgruntled and who would pause before praising the country in any way. And both sides certainly ratched up their rhetoric around the 2016 election, mainly driven by Trump. This is my assessment at least of when the left's position on national greatness changed.

Regarding Trump voters wishing to burn DC... I'm sure they would say they do wish to destroy corrupt institutions, lobbyists, and politicians. Whether we agree with their assessment and judgement on which of these deserve that treatment is another matter. In any case, it's a good example where the right would absolutely not claim American perfection.

But actually disliking the country and wanting to dismantle its history, culture, economic system, and way of life seems to be a unique occupation (for some, but a growing number these days and increasingly mainstream poisition) of the left; the mainstream left is starting to embrace the Howard Zinn philosophy after ignoring it and calling it radical for a long time. So maybe the whole situation could be summarized as right=optimists and left=pessimists of America. Once again, no claims about whose assessment of the country is closest to the truth (since both sides are absurd reductionist positions), but I do think it is a fair claim that more on the left than the right dislike America.

Both of our claims really contain exagerated strawman arguments and generalizations, so let's see if we can be more precise this time. I'm not aware of anybody claiming American perfection. Those on the right tend to celebrate both America's current position in the world and its history. Perhaps the right does this more than is strictly warranted, but a growing position of the left's response doesn't try to claim the rational high ground but rather to oppose any position that the right and Trump support. Nothing new with irrational or hypocritical opposition (both parties do this when the opposition has the Presidency). What _is_ new is that the left used to compete with the right in the game of supurlative praises of the country, but now it is very, very unfashionable to do so for them. This change seemed to happen sometime around the second Obama term; pre-election and first-term Obama sounded like a standard but hopeful politician who wanted to improve the country while Obama on the way out sounded more jaded and disgruntled and who would pause before praising the country in any way. And both sides certainly ratched up their rhetoric around the 2016 election, mainly driven by Trump. This is my assessment at least of when the left's position on national greatness changed. Regarding Trump voters wishing to burn DC... I'm sure they would say they _do_ wish to destroy corrupt institutions, lobbyists, and politicians. Whether we agree with their assessment and judgement on which of these deserve that treatment is another matter. In any case, it's a good example where the right would absolutely not claim American perfection. But actually disliking the country and wanting to dismantle its history, culture, economic system, and way of life seems to be a unique occupation (for some, but a growing number these days and increasingly mainstream poisition) of the left; the mainstream left is starting to embrace the Howard Zinn philosophy after ignoring it and calling it radical for a long time. So maybe the whole situation could be summarized as right=optimists and left=pessimists of America. Once again, no claims about whose assessment of the country is closest to the truth (since both sides are absurd reductionist positions), but I do think it is a fair claim that more on the left than the right dislike America.

[–] Kannibal 0 points (+0|-0)

I'm not aware of anybody claiming American perfection.

but woe on those who do not speak well of America.

Anything other than saying the best about the USA is considered unpatriotic, unless, of course, you are a political leader blaming his opponents for things going wrong. (It's all their fault)

Cuomo on his 'inartful' remark: 'Of course America is great'

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/s/politics