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On average COVID 19 kills people just a few years below their natural life expectancy, at about age 80. They are basically on the way out. Their quality of life and productivity is not the same as a 20 year-old, and the potential years of life lost for them is minimal. Most of them have lived full lives during the decadent and destructive peak of human civilization - I expect that the life-expectancy and quality of life of children today will be much worse, as the world becomes unstable due to climate change, overpopulation and resource shortages.

Investing billions in keeping these lucky pensioners alive for a couple more years is unfair because it is the younger generations who pay for it, with damage to their future careers at crucial moments of development, with damage to their mental health, and by loading them with enormous national debts.

COVID 19 has shown that we can spend (borrow) huge amounts of money as nations. That money should be spent on the future public good, investing in national preparations for the hell on earth that humanity is creating with climate change and biodiversity collapse. It should not be wasted on prolonging the lives of those who, on average, are soon to die anyway. It's another example of older generations stealing from and ruining the lives of younger generations who cannot defend themselves.

The death of an 80 year-old is not worth ruining the future livelihood of a 20 year-old. The death of a 40 year-old through suicide is more serious than the deaths of several 80 year-olds. These other, more serious aspects of human waste and suffering are unthinkingly ignored by society, and actively exacerbated by the politicized first-world response to the pandemic.

On average COVID 19 kills people just a few years below their natural life expectancy, at about age 80. They are basically on the way out. Their quality of life and productivity is not the same as a 20 year-old, and the potential years of life lost for them is minimal. Most of them have lived full lives during the decadent and destructive peak of human civilization - I expect that the life-expectancy and quality of life of children today will be much worse, as the world becomes unstable due to climate change, overpopulation and resource shortages. Investing billions in keeping these lucky pensioners alive for a couple more years is unfair because it is the younger generations who pay for it, with damage to their future careers at crucial moments of development, with damage to their mental health, and by loading them with enormous national debts. COVID 19 has shown that we can spend (borrow) huge amounts of money as nations. That money should be spent on the future public good, investing in national preparations for the hell on earth that humanity is creating with climate change and biodiversity collapse. It should not be wasted on prolonging the lives of those who, on average, are soon to die anyway. It's another example of older generations stealing from and ruining the lives of younger generations who cannot defend themselves. The death of an 80 year-old is not worth ruining the future livelihood of a 20 year-old. The death of a 40 year-old through suicide is more serious than the deaths of several 80 year-olds. These other, more serious aspects of human waste and suffering are unthinkingly ignored by society, and actively exacerbated by the politicized first-world response to the pandemic.

15 comments

[–] Mattvision 6 points (+6|-0)

Upphukking this even though I disagree with a lot of it.

What you say might seem sound, but it's one of the worst and most backwards slippery slopes seen in human history. Choosing whose life is more important than another's, under any circumstances, is wrong. Civilized society is built on a concept of inalienable rights, life almost always being the first among them. While I certainly can't say that people have an obligation to help others at their expense, as is the case right now, I cannot justify or agree with your thesis here that not all lives are equal. To say that we shouldn't be forced to plunder ourselves and our descendants into debt for a futile effort to save the lives of boomers is not wrong, but a disregard for individual rights to life, liberty, and property is.
[–] smallpond [OP] 1 points (+2|-1) Edited

Someone else stated that this is actually an argument for valuing lives equally in context, and I agree with that. Most people, like you, don't see it that way.

Choosing whose life is more important than anothers, under any circumstances, is wrong.

You can casually say that, but society does choose which lives are more important than others in a multitude of policy decisions, and there is no choice not to. You can take a principled stance as above, but it just means that you're opting out of contributing to decisions that must be made.

[–] Mattvision 1 points (+1|-0)

but it just means that you're opting out of contributing to decisions that must be made.

That's part of what makes this slope so slippery. You might think your ends justify your means here, but so have people before you and so will people after you if we allow this kind of way of thinking to prevail again. Today, in pre-climate catastrophe coronaworld, it might be old people. But who will it be tomorrow?

Especially if we're charging head-first into a near apocalypse, we can't allow ourselves to succumb to barbaric ways of thinking. Progressive attitudes and a general value for all human life may be all our descendents have, and we can't go deliberately ruining that like we've ruined almost everything else for them.
[–] smallpond [OP] 0 points (+1|-1)

Again, those decisions have to be made. If we made you emperor and somehow you could not delegate responsibility - you would make them.

It's not about the ends justifying the means, it's just that there is no alternative.

Society currently kills and hurts people on a whim in a ridiculous number of ways. Freedom of movement versus the road toll, ignoring all the brown people starving in distant nations as a direct result of our actions, mental health versus aged care versus economic tough love, versus humane prisons. You might run the world differently if put in charge, but that's not the point, whatever decisions you made, even if you refuse to do anything, will result in some dying and others living. Whatever you do, your ends will justify your means.

[–] jobes 3 points (+3|-0)

I think most healthy societies would be happy to support the elderly and consider them 'equal' or greater than a fit 20 year old. Maybe if countries stopped exporting their wealth to foreign companies and foreign nationals supporting people in their home countries, we wouldn't have issues supporting elderly populations in our own countries?
[–] smallpond [OP] 0 points (+1|-1)

It's not really supporting the elderly in this context, it's sacrificing the lives and livelihoods of others for them (well, apparently for them). Really it's all just political bullshit: this is being framed as money versus lives, whereas a multitude of political decisions already play off money versus lives, but people are too stupid to see that.

[–] [Deleted] 2 points (+2|-0)

Also uphukked.

I think an important benchmark of a society is how it treats it's most vulnerable.

valuing lives equally in context

This reminds me very much of George Orwell's Animal Farm, where the 7th commandment

All animals are equal

Is changed by the pigs to

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others
[–] smallpond [OP] 0 points (+1|-1)

In this context, everyone gets a turn as a pig. It's not the same.
[–] [Deleted] 2 points (+2|-0)

A great society values it elderly for their wisdom and experience. That was before everyone was treated for diseases and all live longer than they would have otherwise.
[–] E-werd 1 points (+1|-0)

The non-ruling class are essentially batteries for industry. Older people are spent batteries, there are no longer a need for them and require more maintenance than the production they are capable of. Young people are full batteries, ready for a lifetime of productivity with little maintenance.
[–] smallpond [OP] 0 points (+1|-1)

We are batteries for ourselves as well, an 80 year-old's quality of life is not comparable to a 20 year old's. Age is also proof of being lucky enough to have lived a long life - you really think our children will be so lucky?
[–] CDanger 1 points (+1|-0)

This analysis is correct and not discussed. The government lockdowns, restrictions, and mandates have been disastrous for those <60 years old.

This can all be sorted out by itself: end the government lockdowns, mandates, and interventions. They have been nothing but disastrous during this pandemic.

If you want to go outside, you are free to do so. Take whatever level of risk you want. If you're 80 years old, you get to make the decision for yourself: should I take the risk going outside where something bad might happen, or should I throw away one of my final years hiding inside? It's a hard call, but for a 40 year old, the choice is obvious. There is no reason for the government to harm some of its citizens for dubious benefits of others.
[–] smallpond [OP] 0 points (+1|-1)

There seem to be a lot of elderly people out and about near me... I think they've come to terms with the fact that the flu and all sorts of other things might kill them at any time. COVID 19's just another threat and not a guaranteed death. Perhaps savoring/enjoying life is the natural choice even for them.
[–] CDanger 1 points (+1|-0)

Plus, if we're being honest, tons of people have plenty of things they should be worried about far more than Covid--like obesity, poor diet, etc. Those are far more likely to kill even somebody 60+ than covid. The media has done a fantastic job of fear mongering and giving false information, and governments have relished in exercising authority.

People need to realize that they are responsible for their health themselves and need to make the effort necessary to look out for their own best interests. If they're too lazy to do this, why should anybody else care?
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