Corporations are people

[–] InnocentBystander 2 points (+6|-4)

Corporations are not people.
People have responsibilities and can be held responsible for their actions. A corporations only duty is to profit, by any means.

A market is not regulated by consumers. Consumers will go with the cheapest/easiest option. The educated consumer you speak of is a myth. Take Equifax as an example, they leaked millions of peoples information, but will continue to operate fine, and will not make any adjustments to their practices except what they are regulated to change. Free-market can't stop them.
An unrestricted free-market has always led to monopolies and abuse. No exceptions.

Every successful market has been regulated.

When you have a bad friend you don't ask the government to make them stop doing something.

When that bad friend gets out of line and begins to hurt people, yes you do call the government. The police division.

My point being corporations are people

But they are not. They have different need, goals, and responsibilities. A corp. is made from people, but isn't one.
We have laws to say what is acceptable behaviour from humans, why wouldn't we have the same for corps.?

but it's hard for them to grow as we put more and more regulations on things

Over-regulation is a not a reason to get rid of all regulation.

Where I'm from they've made a new rule on licenses for crane operators over a certain weight limit

Cranes are incredibly dangerous. They fall over every day, even with a high rate of regulation. Take a look at crane statistics in unregulated states, they are killers. Not just the operators, but bystanders getting killed.
Have you seen the electric grid and other infrastructure in unregulated countries? I think you might change your mind if you did.
Crane operators don't pay those fees (unless they are independents who own their business) the company they work for does.
That's not a lot of money for a crane outfit.

[–] Siedge [OP] 4 points (+4|-0)

Your argument is that educated consumers are a myth? I feel like that falls apart really quickly. When you argue that people are too stupid to figure things out on their own you will find people don't take to kindly too that.

Also that bottom argument of "The company pays it" is the issue and arguing that it's not a lot of money for a large company.. You are reinforcing everything I am arguing here. You are making my argument look really good. You are saying that small businesses and startups shouldn't exist. Everyone should just get a normal job with that mindset. That's not what a lot of people want to do, innovation happens when you allow as many people as possible into markets, regulations don't hurt big business they hurt small businesses.

[–] E-werd 2 points (+2|-0)

Also that bottom argument of "The company pays it" is the issue and arguing that it's not a lot of money for a large company.

I think the point he's trying to make here is that the license acts as a sort of filter for companies that can afford to do business safely. If you can't afford the license, there's a good chance you might be having to cut corners elsewhere. It's a cost of doing business. Lives are at risk and everyone needs to do their due diligence.

Your argument is that educated consumers are a myth?

Nobody shops at Walmart because they think it's a fine, upstanding company. They shop there because it's cheaper. They generated enough sales that they have the ability to strong-arm suppliers into selling cheaper to them. The suppliers know that Walmart is the biggest player in the game and, if they want to stay afloat, they need to play ball. Meanwhile, other retailers can't beat Walmart's pricing because they don't have the sales volume to get the same discounts as Walmart--and that's exactly why they don't have the sales volume. It's a never-ending cycle that is killing companies like JC Penney, Macy's, Sears/Kmart, Toys 'R Us, and more.

Consumers could have kept up their old shopping habits and killed off Walmart and prevented this monopolistic mess, but we'll always go for the cheapest deal. Whether it's stupidity or a lack of means is questionable, but employees aren't paid much at Walmart and the higher-paying retail jobs are disappearing because of Walmart's dominance so you decide where the root is.

When you argue that people are too stupid to figure things out on their own you will find people don't take to kindly too that.

Public opinion, especially of themselves, is often inconsistent with reality. You can feel how you want about this, but stupid is as stupid does. We're still dumb opportunistic animals at our core.

[–] Siedge [OP] 1 points (+1|-0)

With the crane situation, when I used to run a crane, it would have been very very very difficult for me to injure anyone doing what I did. In-fact the only possible person to be injured would have been me. Charging multiple thousands of dollars doesn't prove someone is going to be safe. If the goal was to be safe it wouldn't cost thousands of dollars to take the test. Theres multiple fees, first you have to pay an approval fee (Which is over a thousand dollars on it's own) this fee is to get approved to take the exam. Then you pay for the exam, which costs per each time you take it. Explain why you would need to pay an approval fee if safety is what's being considered here? (Plus crane related fatalities in America is so low as it is, this isn't something that will lower the rate of fatalities in-fact because the license just limits the size of truck you can run, I imagine we will see an increase of fatalities due to people trying to lift bigger things with trucks not rated for those things.

I also don't believe the reason companies like Walmart are able to get so much power is because people are stupid, I attribute most of it to the odd information era we've been in. I don't see Walmart being around too much longer either..

Anyway my point being most the times these regulations are not made by some wonderful guy who wants to see everyone safe. It's by politicians who get paid by large corporations to make sure there's less competition.

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[–] InnocentBystander 0 points (+1|-1)

Edited

Your argument is that educated consumers are a myth?

Yes.

I feel like that falls apart really quickly.

How? You haven't refuted it. Tell me how consumers would have fixed Equifax, or how consumers prevented Microsoft fro getting a monopoly (hint, gov regulations made it so Microsoft bailed out Apple). There are an unlimited number of examples of large corps having to be reigned in by regulations because consumers don't care.

When you argue that people are too stupid to figure things out on their own

I never said that. I said they don't care. It's an example of 'Tragedy of the commons'.

argument of "The company pays it" is the issue and arguing that it's not a lot of money for a large company

That's not what I said, and that is not my argument.
My point was that cranes are very dangerous and lack of regulations leads to many bystander fatalities.

You are saying that small businesses and startups shouldn't exist.

No I did not. You're not being rational at this point.
Please try to stay calm, I don't have much patience for people who get offended by opposing views.

Corporations are people

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/s/Whatever