6 comments
I'm not a fan of germanic Christianity, despite being raised baptist. Mostly due to the hypocrisy, but largely due to studying the history of the church.
I've since converted to orthodoxy.
I'm not a fan of germanic Christianity, despite being raised baptist. Mostly due to the hypocrisy, but largely due to studying the history of the church.
I've since converted to orthodoxy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35K6vQRt67ghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35K6vQRt67g
Not much argument here, although the verse doesn't contradict the homosexuality == immoral position. It just demands that we be introspective about our own foibles instead of being haughty and judgmental. Assuming that verse is legit; it is usually bracketed off with a note saying that this story doesn't appear in the oldest manuscripts (bits and pieces of the story do show up in older texts, but the placement is erratic). As an alternative verse I'd recommend "Judge not, lest ye be judged", and "How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother's eye."
Many churches do acknowledge that is an unhelpfully extreme position. Other books (mostly by Peter and Paul) extort the church members to "be sober-minded", but I can't think of any verses where Jesus demands teetotalism. He did make wine, after all. And there was wine at the Last Supper. And in the Old Testament, the Hebrews were told that for their annual pilgrimage to Jerusalem: "And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the Lord your God blesses you, because the place is too far from you, which the Lord your God chooses, to set his name there, then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the Lord your God chooses and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves."
AFAIK they didn't have abortion in that time, unless you count murdering a pregnant woman.
No real debate for the last three.
1. Not much argument here, although the verse doesn't contradict the homosexuality == immoral position. It just demands that we be introspective about our own foibles instead of being haughty and judgmental. Assuming that verse is legit; it is usually bracketed off with a note saying that this story doesn't appear in the oldest manuscripts (bits and pieces of the story do show up in older texts, but the placement is erratic). As an alternative verse I'd recommend "Judge not, lest ye be judged", and "How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother's eye."
2. Many churches do acknowledge that is an unhelpfully extreme position. Other books (mostly by Peter and Paul) extort the church members to "be sober-minded", but I can't think of any verses where Jesus demands teetotalism. He did make wine, after all. And there was wine at the Last Supper. And in the Old Testament, the Hebrews were told that for their annual pilgrimage to Jerusalem: "And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the Lord your God blesses you, because the place is too far from you, which the Lord your God chooses, to set his name there, then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the Lord your God chooses and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or **strong drink**, whatever your appetite craves."
3. AFAIK they didn't *have* abortion in that time, unless you count murdering a pregnant woman.
No real debate for the last three.
many natural remedies were used for abortion.
of special note:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silphium
https://io9.gizmodo.com/5923071/did-the-romans-drive-a-birth-control-plant-to-extinction
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170907-the-mystery-of-the-lost-roman-herb
many natural remedies were used for abortion.
of special note:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silphium
https://io9.gizmodo.com/5923071/did-the-romans-drive-a-birth-control-plant-to-extinction
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170907-the-mystery-of-the-lost-roman-herb
Pretty sure I could build a chart that says the exact opposite of this.
For example, Matthew 10:34: "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
The point is giant, old religious texts written by many authors over hundreds of years and edited over thousands will contain text that can support just about anything.