4

12 comments

[–] ScorpioGlitch 0 points (+0|-0)

This is something I slowly think about every now and then. Every time I mention it, someone pokes a hole in it and then I think about the hole. The implementation itself is the problem while the idea, I think, is sound.

All you have to do is show that you contribute, right? Kind of like a credit score shows you are supposedly responsible with money and debt. So like a "contribution credit score." That credit gets applied against what you do for a living. Like a replacement for salary, it says "This person can consume a maximum of this many goods and services per anum." It gets rid of money. And barter is gone except on a personal level (assuming you disallow it on any larger level).

It also gets rid of poverty and welfare programs, yes?

There are problems with this.

  1. Everyone on the planet needs to be a part of this system.

  2. This would require an insane amount of data on a person, country's population, etc.

  3. Hackable. I mean, you need a computer system to track this. At some point, someone will get the idea of getting into the data and give themselves more than they're worth.

  4. Disability. I suppose a workaround might be that once you are disabled, you either stay at your last "registered" consumer class or you get a fraction (kind of like how unemployment works now).

But the idea, simply put, is that you cannot consume if you do not contribute and you cannot consume more than you would be able in a capitalist economy. No more arguments about socialism, communism, etc.

[–] cyclops1771 1 points (+1|-0)

What about savings, I assume you can bank unused credits?

Can I load my unused credits to another? What is the incentive? Can I charge interest on these credit loans?

Why do I open a business? First I have to starve self for years to accumulate credits if no loans, and then I open one, but what benefit do I get - I assume that the business gets assigned a credit value for opening? I am giving up high credit position to open business, and if business is low to start or goes gangbusters, what credit value does business get? I might be getting overpaid or underpaid based on current business value.

What if I have great new idea, but because it is new idea, there is no credit value, therefore I get none until idea is proven? What is process for assigning credit value?

Interesting thought exercise! I love brainstorming!

[–] ScorpioGlitch 0 points (+0|-0)

It's not a credit thing. It's not money. It's not cashless money. That implies a tradeable thing with value. That's what we want to get away from. You have a limit of "value" that you can consume based on what you contribute. So that should answer a lot of the questions, right?

I suppose you could allow it to roll over and "save". If you're living below your means, why shouldn't you do that? If you live below your allotment for 5 years, maybe you're consumer level is worth more. So maybe you can "afford" that house in a better neighborhood. tangible things suddenly don't have a value on their own so why would a house cost anything? It's not the materials that have value as much as the person's time and ability. So it's not the building of the house that costs you but rather the features of it. And anything that can be mass produced by machines might have less value, right? But then again, to prevent hoarding, most automated positions would be "banned". It lets everyone do whatever it is they really want to do. So that janitor can suddenly build houses because that's what he wants to do and that introverted lady down the street can take the janitor job because it satisfies her needs. I don't know, something about that seems off, maybe the value of those jobs. Janitorial work is critically important in, say, a school or office but it pays so little. How do you maintain value equality between positions without creating a standards of living gap? <sigh>

Opening a business... hmmm.I hadn't thought much of that yet. I honestly don't know. Something more to think about! I mean, you're contributing but you need starter material. Maybe raw materials "cost" nothing and you're "paying" for someone's time. So if you open a business, it should be a high value business, right? Instead of some little kiosk "selling" plastic trinkets from China? I mean, there should be nothing to stop you from opening a business but at some point, there needs to be a mechanic that prevents "useless" value from being created while allowing people to do what makes them truly happy. As an example, if I won $5 million tomorrow, I'd probably still go into work for a while, at least part time. Something to do to keep me from being lazy or something.

Ugh, maybe the idea is just not workable. Or maybe I don't know enough about the things needed to define these issues and solutions.

[–] cyclops1771 0 points (+0|-0)

It's a good thought exercise, though. No reason to give it up for anything other than progressing the idea further.

I might be too much of a capitalist (or a narcissist) to fully grasp the concept of consumption without incentive to produce. I love chatting with strangers, drinking, playing D&D, reading history books, traveling. I HATE lawnwork. I hate driving. I hate dealing with stupid people. Not sure how much production I would provide by reading history books and slaying imaginary orcs, even though I am a GREAT slayer of orcs!). So, therefore I wouldn't have much value to anyone, so I wouldn't be able to access the books I would want to read.

So, I would have to go do things I don't like that are more productive and have more value, so I CAN do what I love. Which brings us full circle back to working crap jobs you hate! But, over the course of time, those with more empathy, with a more giving personality, would garner more value.

Often, though, value as we know it revolves(at least partially, although there are always outliers) around scarcity - the more scarce the resource, the higher the value. So, we need to work on that issue as well. Not everyone can do mental jobs to perform tasks such as rebuilding machines, or programming an AI or designing pleasing architectural spaces, or even doing jobs requiring large strength or dexterity such as lifting objects carefully or animal control or surgery or stone cutting or carving. These jobs are scarce due to the number of people who can actually perform them.

Finally, we want to look at "take what you want" and how we stop people from simply taking what they want, credits/value be damned. Or getting mad, and beating up a high value person and making them a non-person or a disabled person, simply because that is what they like doing (think murder hobos or warlords in outlaw areas or Robin Hood in Sherwood Forest.)

Anyways, I am really glad you posted this - I am having an enjoyable time thinking about this. Thanks!