A Dutch action group is planning "noise demonstrations" during the Dutch May 4th National Remembrance moment of silence.

Introduction to Dutch 4th and 5th May:

In the Netherlands we celebrate our WW2 liberation on the 5th of May which is a national holiday "Liberation day". There are music festivals all around the country and people enjoy this often sunny spring day to celebrate our freedom, democracy and our privileges.

As the Netherlands suffered heavily during WW2 (especially the civilian population in the late stages of the war) We mourn the Dead of the war, (more recently any one who died in a war since ww2) by having 2 minutes of silence at 20:00 hours on May the 4th and have flags half-mast across the nation. There are remembrance services all over the nation at local monuments and these are attended by hundreds of thousands of people from all walks of life and ages. The king and PM attend a national service in the center of Amsterdam which is broadcast on all Dutch channels and watched by millions (national and commercial stations, by choice). Public life grinds to a halt around eight o'clock. Busses, Trains, even cabs in transit will stop on route; the third biggest European Airport Schiphol has a planned 4 minute gap in arrivals/departures, Drivers park their cars on parking spots along the highway, shops are closed early, pizza delivery boys pause and stand to attention and restaurants ask guests to respect the 2 min silence. Our nation literally stands still and is silent for 2 minutes on May 4th.

Even 73 years after the War this is still a highly respected national ceremony moment backed by an overwhelming majority of our population (93%) across the political spectrum. The combination with remembrance/mourning/"standing still at the destruction of war" and then celebrating freedom the day after makes this a very special communal national experience. As an example here is footage of the 2017 ceremony.

Enter professional activists.

In 2015 a twitter campaign was started #geen4meivoormij ( No 4th of may for me). A girl posted this picture on twitter and argued that the remembrance is racist and she wouldn't respect it. She appeared to be part of a small "professional" action group that reasoned:

As the recent inclusion of remembering "all those who died during war situations" implies that we remember the Dutch soldiers that fought in the Indonesian revolutionary war, but not the death of the civilians they killed..... this ceremony hence is discriminating.

So according to this group, the whole national remembrance moment is deemed racist and anyone involved or backing/defending this moment is a racist. While i agree the Dutch actions in Indonesia aren't the best page in our history books, it's absurd to use this reasoning to brand the whole remembrance "racist". The action only got a few responses with people tweeting similar pics, there was mild outrage in the media and overall the issue was met with disdain from all sides of the political spectrum. All in all it was free speech and they where not bothering anyone.

Current day

So after this failed attempt at protests the group decided to up the ante this year and on the 24th of april a facebook event was started "come demonstrate against the racist 4th May remembrance" where this group was calling to hold a "noise demonstrations" at the national remembrance in Amsterdam. The direct impact was minimal as only 12 people clicked to attend and about 50 where interested. The secondary fallout was glorious:

The Major of Amsterdam responded in kind and was very clear:

"the right to demonstrate is holy. But this has nothing to do with demonstrating, this is just meant to disrupt our national 4th May moment. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech or demonstrating and hence is illegal and punishable by law. We will do everything in our extend to stop this from happening"

The demonstration was banned by the major and all Dutch political parties (there are about 2 dozen) have rejected the ideas about this protest. The organizing committee has already announced to not even enter into talks with this group as their ways are absurd and totally disrespectful. The committee is especially annoyed, since there are still living survivors attending. The overall consensus of the Dutch is that these are basic attention whores instead of proper interest group and that "Demonstrating is all fine and dandy, but not on the 4th of May" and certainly not with the intent to disrupt a remembrance.

So since the protest was banned the group has now filed a lawsuit at the municipal court to fight this ban. The court is due to give judgement on Thursday afternoon, the day before the National remembrance. I severely doubt they stand a chance to get this overturned especially since there has been a big public outrage which would qualify this as a risk scenario. There already was an incident with a deranged man Screaming and causing a panic in 2010 which caused a big scare and a small stampede. Even if they manage to "disrupt" the ceremony I reckon the police will not be the only ones sweeping these asshole off the square with a heavy hand.

Just to give an idea about this group: The girl in the picture of #geen4meivoormij was arrested earlier this year for calling on people to kill the actor playing Sinterklaas, and "splatter the children attending his arrival in blood and gore"..... Cause Sinterklaas (the figure Santa Claus is based on) is of course racist.........

some reference links in Dutch:

8 comments

[–] pembo210 2 points (+2|-0)

bark bark bark

alright you two, don't make me get the water hose :p

[–] Boukert [OP] 2 points (+2|-0)

Edited

Might have been rough wording but I consider @InnocentBystander a friend and I know he can take it.

To humor him I'd like to clarify:

From 1946 - 2011 this remembrance was purely for the Dutch fallen during WW2. (either in colonies or at home)

0% of this remembrance was about the soldiers or citizens that died during the Indonesian revolutionary war.

from 2011 onward the committee in an attempt to modernize the remembrance added the following statement to the ledger:

"During the national commemoration of Remembrance Day we remember all Dutch victims – civilians and soldiers – who have been killed or murdered in the Kingdom of the Netherlands or anywhere else in the world in war situations or during peace-keeping operations since the outbreak of the Second World War."

So technically from this moment the Dutch troops fighting in the Indonesian revolutionary war where included. But technically so where the civilians/rebels that died as they "officially" still where Dutch citizens as Indonesia wasn't an official state yet.

So from the start this had absolutely nothing to do with the Indonesian actions, and even after the added memorandum this inclusion is very, very, very marginal and even when stretched doesn't cover the "4th may remembrance is racist" reasoning.

Now to go back to our last discussion about the civil war; I think even you would agree that at the very least; slavery was one of the prime reasons behind the civil war.

See how crooked the context?

[–] InnocentBystander 0 points (+0|-0)

I think even you would agree that at the very least about 25% of the civil war was about slavery

It's hard to put a number on that, however I would argue that even if slavery had not been an issue, that war would still have happened.
Slavery was more of a propaganda tool than casus belli.

See how crooked the context?

No. While the situations are not the same, both involve sjws injecting race into an issue that was not about race. Race may/may not have been a factor, but it's not the subject.
Until artificially made the subject by revising what is important about history and how to perceive it. It's about judging history from a modern perspective.
It shouldn't be done. For any reason.

I'm not just baiting you, this time. The most relevant parts, to me, of both those stories are very similar. I think you may be a bit too close to it, and have a different enough opinion of the Confederates, to see that.

[–] Boukert [OP] 2 points (+2|-0)

It's hard to put a number on that, however I would argue that even if slavery had not been an issue, that war would still have happened. Slavery was more of a propaganda tool than casus belli.

Yeah i edited that before you replied to one of the "prime reasons" as the percentage didn't feel good to me either. so that one is on me.

"that war would still have happened." - this is bullshit reasoning and doesn't change anything

"Slavery was more of a propaganda tool than casus belli."

Even though i disagree on you downplaying the slavery issue. that doesn't change the fact that slavery/race is still one of the reasons for this war and integrated in its roots no matter how you twist and turn. In my eyes criticism is justified and it even carries a broad support among the US population in contrary to the NL case. But we'll probably never agree on "what role slavery played in the civil war", even if I think the answer is obvious and I already tried to meet you halfway in this casus. I really don't see the point in this argument on a /s/thenetherlands post about a group trying to disrupt the National Remembrance of the dead.

No. While the situations are not the same, both involve sjws injecting race into an issue that was not about race. Race may/may not have been a factor, but it's not the subject. Until artificially made the subject by revising what is important about history and how to perceive it. It's about judging history from a modern perspective. It shouldn't be done. For any reason.

Like above: the civil war was (even if it was only partly) about race from the get-go, (so nothing artificially injected there)..... The 4th may remembrance explicitly wasn't and even the added ledger after 65 years doesn't make it that. In my eyes it is pretty crooked to see someone compare our national remembrance for the dead (from a war with nazi's who used forced labour on our population) in a casus where you are trying to whitewash confederate rhetoric and ignore the role of slavery.

The most relevant parts, to me, of both those stories are very similar. I think you may be a bit too close to it, and have a different enough opinion of the Confederates, to see that.

While there are superficial similarities in the case, (and I agree it's annoying to see "professional activist groups" do this shit) the most relevant parts of this story: the essence, history, logic, reasoning and citizen support differ massively behind both cases, making them incomparable in your casus. I think you may be a bit too close to "your" confederate opinions, seem to have a drive to "convert" me and cheer me on with a Martin Niemöller poem when "I broke my "ostrich strategy" and joined the woken ones.... (you seem to have forgotten my stance on VOC statues)

I'll personally prefer to look critically at anything or any custom on a case by case basis rather then pile them all on a big pile and blame the SJW's tyvm..

We had this exact same discussion about the confederates a few months back.We ran into the exact same trouble then, you refused to see the nuance and didn't acknowledge slavery as a reason for the war then as well.. we ended up discussing the role of slavery in the civil war again.... We both exactly know how this discussion will go so i'll toss you a bone and then we might go back to topic. yeah? > It's hard to put a number on that, however I would argue that even if slavery had not been an issue, that war would still have happened. Slavery was more of a propaganda tool than casus belli. Yeah i edited that before you replied to one of the "prime reasons" as the percentage didn't feel good to me either. so that one is on me. "that war would still have happened." - this is bullshit reasoning and doesn't change anything "Slavery was more of a propaganda tool than casus belli." Even though i disagree on you downplaying the slavery issue. that doesn't change the fact that slavery/race is still one of the reasons for this war and integrated in its roots no matter how you twist and turn. In my eyes criticism is justified and it even carries a broad support among the US population in contrary to the NL case. But we'll probably never agree on "what role slavery played in the civil war", even if I think the answer is obvious and I already tried to meet you halfway in this casus. I really don't see the point in this argument on a /s/thenetherlands post about a group trying to disrupt the National Remembrance of the dead. > No. While the situations are not the same, both involve sjws injecting race into an issue that was not about race. Race may/may not have been a factor, but it's not the subject. > Until artificially made the subject by revising what is important about history and how to perceive it. It's about judging history from a modern perspective. > It shouldn't be done. For any reason. Like above: the civil war was (even if it was only partly) about race from the get-go, (so nothing artificially injected there)..... The 4th may remembrance explicitly wasn't and even the added ledger after 65 years doesn't make it that. In my eyes it is pretty crooked to see someone compare our national remembrance for the dead (from a war with nazi's who used forced labour on our population) in a casus where you are trying to whitewash confederate rhetoric and ignore the role of slavery. > The most relevant parts, to me, of both those stories are very similar. I think you may be a bit too close to it, and have a different enough opinion of the Confederates, to see that. While there are superficial similarities in the case, (and I agree it's annoying to see "professional activist groups" do this shit) the most relevant parts of this story: the essence, history, logic, reasoning and citizen support differ massively behind both cases, making them incomparable in your casus. I think you may be a bit too close to "your" confederate opinions, seem to have a drive to "convert" me and cheer me on with a Martin Niemöller poem when "I broke my "ostrich strategy" and joined the woken ones.... (you seem to have forgotten my stance on VOC statues) I'll personally prefer to look critically at anything or any custom on a case by case basis rather then pile them all on a big pile and blame the SJW's tyvm..

A Dutch action group is planning "noise demonstrations" during the Dutch May 4th National Remembrance moment of silence.

Introduction to Dutch 4th and 5th May:

Enter professional activists.

Current day

8 comments

/s/TheNetherlands