[–] TheRedArmy 4 points (+4|-0)

Gaha, it's true, it's true.

I'm actually very torn on independence votes in general, same with Scotland as Catalonia.

On the one hand, if people wish to leave, to form their own country with their own rules, I think it's their human right to do so. Pretty much all livable land has already been claimed, so the only way to do it is leave voluntarily, and have the nation you're leaving give you land or take it by force. The force option is pretty uninviting, so that leaves peaceful secession.

So let's imagine Catalonia wants to leave, and the region has a vote, and there is 100% turnout (won't happen), and 75% vote to secede. OK, so I believe in the right of those 75% to leave. I worry more about the remaining 25% though. They still want to be part of Spain, want to continue to live in that land and that culture. Asking them to pick up and move, selling their house and possibly the only life they've ever known seems cruel. At the same time, if so many people actually want to leave and cannot, in good conscience, continue to live under their present government, I don't feel you can deny that their right to do that legitimately. And every answer I've thought of is still very unsatisfying for resolving this situation.

So I don't know how I feel about secession votes in general. It's probably a good idea to at least have them, but what should be done after the vote, if it indicates a change is warranted, is hard to say.

[–] PMYA 2 points (+2|-0)

Scotland can fuck off.

They had their independence referendum and voted to remain, now SNP won't stop reeeing about it and are trying to push another vote. The justification is that the UK voted to leave the EU, but Scotland didn't, so they should be able to have another independence referendum. Ironically, the EU referendum only came about purely from similar political games being played (Cameron promised a vote if the Conservatives won in 2015, to alleviate pressure from euroskeptics and pick up some extra voters). Leaving the EU was not a large talking point before the referendum was held, and the campaign to leave picked up steam rapidly.

If you give people two options to choose from, you are never going to get a huge majority vote one way or another, and it just creates internal chaos with two factions fighting to see who can suck off as many voters as possible. If Scotland get another vote, referendum politics is going to turn into the standard. Don't like something? Have a referendum. Didn't get the vote you wanted? Have another referendum, because you only need to get that leave vote once and there is no going back. It's not like we're going to have a Scottish referendum on rejoining the UK every two years if they ever do vote to leave.

[–] Fluf 3 points (+3|-0)

pff, just let them secede so they will ally with france then declare war on them so you can take some of south france without having to fight with all of france's allies.