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39 comments

[–] jobes 1 points (+1|-0)

And nothing has been proven in a court of law, as of yet

Correct, I misspoke. She has only been charged with campaign finance fraud and was given a slap on the wrist.

Nothing was proven in a court of law

Sure, kind of hard to do when the FBI has whales of evidence to present to the DoJ, but they just exonerate her. The few actual journalists left in this world released that evidence and were severely punished for that.

Ungrateful? really?

Yeah. A lot of people died during the time that anthem was crafted. Pretty shitty thing to do to disrespect the dead.

[–] Boukert [OP] 1 points (+1|-0)

A lot of people died during the time that anthem was crafted

a lot of people die all the time while stuff is being crafted. To think about it we're an industrious species even though we're fragile.

You can easily argue that the anthem and flag also represent an occupancy force (Indians), an oppression force (slaves, chinese) or a colonial force. Nevertheless, those people died for values rather then a song.

One of those values being, freedom of speech. Personally i think due to it being a silent "respectful" protest i think it's no disrespect to the dead.

If he would be whistling, jeering or shouting trough the anthem I'd call that ungrateful.

[–] jobes 1 points (+1|-0)

How would people in your country react if say a soccer player burned a Netherlands flag before a game? That would be silent protest, right?

[–] Boukert [OP] 1 points (+1|-0)

I would not call that a "respectful", silent protest, as it involves a hazardous act meaning to deliberately disrupt/distract from the anthem. I wouldn't call him holding a sign a silent protest or trying to mime his message with his body either.

But to take your casus on i think it Depends.

National teams:

If its during our anthem when the national team plays it would be seen as very fucking disrespectful, as that player would represent the Netherlands in that upcoming game. This is in no way representative of your nation and such a person would no doubt be barred for appearing for the national team.

More realistic scenarios like: Not singing the anthem, isn't an issue over half don't, we don't do the creepy hand on the hart thingy or face the flag either. None of these are issues.

Club games:

During normal (Club games) there is no anthem or show of Dutch flags. Even if its international games. The clubs represent local regions or cities and mostly are made up out of all kinds of nationalities. This works like this in all sports, and all international games considering clubs in Europe. If a player would burn a Dutch flag before a clubgame, we'd mainly call him an idiot, and blame him for endangering others with a hazardous act. Footballers do protest all the time, main use is putting a T-shirt under your jersey so you can show the text when you score. Literally no one bats an eye, when they do though....after all, they are just footballers.

All in all we are not really that patriotic at all in symbolism , especially compared to muricans. No pledging to a flag, no abundant anthem's everywhere, no hand on the hart, no patriotic pin in the colbert, etc etc. This doesn't mean we love our nation, our way of life and freedoms any less, we're just secure enough to not have to put up a show everytime.