I've worked and hung out with legal and illegal immigrants. Just like any other group, you have awesome people and horrible people. That doesn't really change the fact that those who didn't go through the immigration process legally are earning income illegally. It's a form of anarchy, disregarding laws because it doesn't suit you. When you increase the population that disregards laws because of convenience, it should not come as a surprise that eventually you will witness an increase in crime.
Now if you want to talk about changing immigration laws, hey, let's talk. Of course, you already know my position: the only way to gain citizenship is to go to a college, earn a degree (paying with their own money) in a set amount of time with a requirement to work at least one year in their field. If they already have an education in that field, it trains them to that country's method and work culture while introducing them to ideas and methods that they can use in combination with their own experience. It completely eliminates problems of supporting themselves, puts valuable people into the work force, and weeds out people who can't or won't do productive work while simultaneously increasing the general workforce ability and intelligence.
Now would those requirements be regardless of country of origin? Also many Americans are unwilling to work manual labor regardless of pay which leads to a need for unskilled labor which tends to be historically where the illegal immigrants work. I think if you are going to only allow the best and brightest immigrate then society is going to have to stigma for manual labor.
I can see both sides of the argument on immigration but I just don't think Americans are willing to adjust society to stop the Hispanic laborers from coming in. But if they were to be vetted better and had some sort of legal immigration status that was reasonable, I think most Americans would accept them. That's what I'm in favor of, giving these people some sort status that allows the manual labor jobs to be filled and keeps them from gaming the system.
Now would those requirements be regardless of country of origin
Of course. It would be a bit racist to do otherwise, yeah?
many Americans are unwilling to work manual labor regardless of pay which leads to a need for unskilled labor which tends to be historically where the illegal immigrants work
You know that was the same excuse used in the days of slavery, right? So I consider this a completely invalid argument based on principles, ethics, and morals alone. I work in an industry that has historical completely abused the H1B visa program. Companies place job ads that are 100% shaped and crafted to avoid American workers. This goes from not being in English all the way down to "Will not accept anyone without an H1B visa." While you might be willing to see the better part of people, companies have no better part and are only about the money. "A worker who will do all this, for cheap, and take all the abuse we can dish out? Bring 'em on!" And of course H1B visa holders will put up with it. If they lose their job, they have to leave the country. So they'll work for next to nothing. This artificially depresses wages. So in order to get pay in my field that is anything close to what you should be getting in my field, you don't stay with one company. You job hop every 6 months to a year. That means no real retirement fund, no good savings, nothing good on the insurance front, perks that always reset. This is not how working is supposed to be. No American worker pushes for more immigrants in their own field. Only the companies.
So should we let people in to fill job positions? Imagine the most firm way of saying no and then say that out loud.
I think if you are going to only allow the best and brightest immigrate then society is going to have to stigma for manual labor.
I didn't say "best and brightest." I said an education track. And it's only a 5 year track instead of the abuse they have to put up with working for substandard wages. If they want to go into another field after 5 years, nothing is stopping them.
And except in the current economy, we've had far less people coming in (legally or not) and those industries with manual labor are starting to thrive again. Let me know if you need links on this but, just a forewarning, it's been posted here on phuks before.
I just don't think Americans are willing to adjust society to stop the Hispanic laborers from coming in
Pointing to my previous comment, that would be racist. Although, to be fair, a lot of people do share that sentiment and many have a cognitive contradiction: they don't mind Hispanics being here as long as they don't see them in a job or in a school. To be fair, that's where a lot of imbalance is happening. We've been talking about the jobs bit but also in school where these children who are here illegally or, if you consider another thought, wouldn't and shouldn't be here if not for their parents... they aren't citizens and are therefore using up resources funded by the taxpayer for education that are intended for legal or natural citizens. There's already too little funding for schools. This is part of the reason why. There's a primary school down the road from me. I drive by it on my way to work. The neighborhood is primarily white but half the signs for the school are only in Spanish. Elementary school kids don't pay attention to such things so those signs are for the parents. Parents who can't ready English and are therefore here illegally. That's not a small influence.
Granted, that whole section really applies to any race or country of origin. It just so happens that it's a lot easier for people from Mexico to get in because there's a shared border. Any other country pretty much has to slip in via plane, boat or another country (such as Mexico). And since the US has better treatment of prisoners and has long had a kind of "catch and release" system, they opt to come here first.
they were to be vetted better
Trump tried that with Muslim majority countries with known ties to terrorism (except Saudi Arabia, of course... gotta have that oil). There were two camps: those who called it racist and those who were called racist for supporting that change. You have to understand that a better or stricter vetting process decreases the amount of people coming in and that creates pressure on both sides of the border to decrease requirements.
Honestly I was against open borders until I worked with some illegals and my daily interactions with them changed my views. I felt it was very hypocritical of me to be saying "kick them all out" when I was spending 12+ hours with them some days. In my interactions, I saw some of the animosity that occurs between Mexicans and Central Americans. Most landscapers in Atlanta will tell you to be careful mixing the two groups and if you do, then make sure the crew leader can keep the peace. Some landscapers will only hire workers from one country in order to avoid any conflicts.
Honestly I think this convoy is either a group of "coyotes" who are being brazen or the work of a NGO. The groups were gathering a certain points and waiting for the convoy to pass though then they joined. It's too well organized to be random. It definitely isn't a "Forrest Gump" situation.
I saw a great post somewhere the other day that said "if immigration laws were changed so that they were no longer illegal immigrants, would you still be against their coming?"