How does a plane with no fuel start such a big fire in a rainforest climate?

[–] Sarcastaway [OP] 1 points (+1|-0)

Here a few of the sources I've found:

Air traffic control audio There's several versions, but this is the most complete that I can find.

Here is a compilation of all of the video that was available as of 12-18 hours after the crash. It has a shorter version of the ATC audio in the background. (Side note, whoever made this video is fast. It would take me at least a day to rip and edit all these together.)

The first minute and 25 seconds of audio appear to be unique to this video, and show the initial take-off radar data plus the chatter between ATC and other pilots as they witness the theft of the plane.

You make good points though. I still think the event was highly observed for such a low population area, and that the fire was a little much for a bone-dry aircraft crash, but I'll admit I don't know that region. It also seems a little too fitting that the guy runs out of gas within a couple minutes of the first time he's not over a populated area, but maybe those stunts really do burn that much fuel.

In any case, I'm just glad that no innocents were hurt. This could have been a lot worse.

[–] PhunkyPlatypus 1 points (+1|-0)

Edited

I caught a bit of audio in which he admits to have only filled it with a small amount of fuel, and later admitted to not knowing how much it actually amounted to. So, when increasing the throttle to a point of performing a loop de loop, that would quickly eat through the limited load.

The fire didn't honestly look so bad, not anything to what I would expect from even a few hundred pounds of jet fuel. From my experience the fire looked like a standard wild fire. Underbrush and foliage primarily burning. Shit is super dry right now, even on a small island surrounded by fire. It's been at least 6 weeks since a good rain, combined with 90 degree temps. Washington rainforests arent like south american or east pacific rainforests. They're much more temperate.

As far as the amount of phone footage. This took place at what 9 pm on friday or saturday night? Regardless it was hot as balls, and that would be right about when things started cooling off. People would be out and about enjoying the cooler night air on their weekend. And that noise would be enough to make me put on pants and walk outside to investigate. Those videos you can hear the engines screaming and reverberating.

None of this is a concrete answer. Just my opinion with what I know on the subject. It's certainly bizarre but I can't fathom how this could be spun into any usable conspiracy. It just makes no sense at all. Sometimes weird shit happens and it makes no sense. But there's so little precedence for this sort of thing to compare to, it's just wild speculations from every corner to make sense.

On a side note, it's been rough for washington transportation with this and that amtrak crash last december.

I also want to bring up that this was not the actions of a rational person, if he was in the midst of some sort of bi polar episode which seems likely based on his wildly changing priorities. Sometimes he wants to die, than he doesn't want to be hurt by landing at the military base. Then he's committed by apologizing for his actions. The whole thing is just so outrageous and odd. I can only speculate.

I sure have a lot of questions about this whole incident. He should have never had the opportunity to get the plane in the air. I'm baffled that he was capable of taking off and performing those stunts without any proper training. (Now that I think about it, perhaps he played a lot of flight simulators. He did work with aircraft for a living so it would not be far fetched.) I caught a bit of audio in which he admits to have only filled it with a small amount of fuel, and later admitted to not knowing how much it actually amounted to. So, when increasing the throttle to a point of performing a loop de loop, that would quickly eat through the limited load. The fire didn't honestly look so bad, not anything to what I would expect from even a few hundred pounds of jet fuel. From my experience the fire looked like a standard wild fire. Underbrush and foliage primarily burning. Shit is super dry right now, even on a small island surrounded by fire. It's been at least 6 weeks since a good rain, combined with 90 degree temps. Washington rainforests arent like south american or east pacific rainforests. They're much more temperate. As far as the amount of phone footage. This took place at what 9 pm on friday or saturday night? Regardless it was hot as balls, and that would be right about when things started cooling off. People would be out and about enjoying the cooler night air on their weekend. And that noise would be enough to make me put on pants and walk outside to investigate. Those videos you can hear the engines screaming and reverberating. None of this is a concrete answer. Just my opinion with what I know on the subject. It's certainly bizarre but I can't fathom how this could be spun into any usable conspiracy. It just makes no sense at all. Sometimes weird shit happens and it makes no sense. But there's so little precedence for this sort of thing to compare to, it's just wild speculations from every corner to make sense. On a side note, it's been rough for washington transportation with this and that amtrak crash last december. I also want to bring up that this was not the actions of a rational person, if he was in the midst of some sort of bi polar episode which seems likely based on his wildly changing priorities. Sometimes he wants to die, than he doesn't want to be hurt by landing at the military base. Then he's committed by apologizing for his actions. The whole thing is just so outrageous and odd. I can only speculate.

[–] Sarcastaway [OP] 0 points (+0|-0)

I sure have a lot of questions about this whole incident. He should have never had the opportunity to get the plane in the air.

I've never even though to ask this question... but do planes even have keys? Or do they just rely on perimeter security and complexity to prevent theft? I know that military humvees have key-less ignition, so I guess its possible.

Come to think of it, has a plane ever even been stolen? Obviously hijackings have happened, but what about a from-the-ground theft? Is this a first? I think it might be, at least for a US commercial airliner.

I'm baffled that he was capable of taking off and performing those stunts without any proper training. (Now that I think about it, perhaps he played a lot of flight simulators. He did work with aircraft for a living so it would not be far fetched.)

I have a friend who was a pilot for a small cargo service in the tropics. He insisted that flying a plane is really easy. He even went as far as to say it was easier than the simulators, just because you could feel the air currents and g-forces. I asked him about this a few years after 9/11, so he didn't really comment on takeoff/landing. Obviously I can't comment on any of the stunts this recent thief pulled-off, but needless to say, I agree. I'm baffled as well, though maybe natural talent is a real thing.

I caught a bit of audio in which he admits to have only filled it with a small amount of fuel, and later admitted to not knowing how much it actually amounted to. So, when increasing the throttle to a point of performing a loop de loop, that would quickly eat through the limited load.

I do trust you, but if you have a timestamp on that I wouldn't mind having it on hand for reference.

People would be out and about enjoying the cooler night air on their weekend. And that noise would be enough to make me put on pants and walk outside to investigate.

A valid point. I don't really know the weather around those parts, but considering the cliche of rain in Washington, I can assume a clear day is worth enjoying.

None of this is a concrete answer. Just my opinion with what I know on the subject. It's certainly bizarre but I can't fathom how this could be spun into any usable conspiracy.

Hey, I respect that and there's no need for the disclaimer. My gut feeling feeling of a conspiracy comes from the pure absurdity of this, but I'm completely willing to admit this could be anything or nothing at all. In my defense, my suspicions come from what might be called the "movie script" quality of the event. But again, I'm willing to admit that weird things happen. Perhaps hollywood is rubbing off on us as a culture.

On a side note, it's been rough for washington transportation with this and that amtrak crash last december.

Interesting connection, thanks for mentioning it.

I also want to bring up that this was not the actions of a rational person, if he was in the midst of some sort of bi polar episode which seems likely based on his wildly changing priorities. Sometimes he wants to die, than he doesn't want to be hurt by landing at the military base.

This is about the only part I might disagree with. Putting aside his (admittedly hilarious) sense of humor, I can understand not wanting to land a hijacked craft at a military base. That's 100% certain death. I maintain that point. Anyone who defies federal airspace will not live to make their case. The last (near) exception I can think of is Viktor Belenko landing a Russian aircraft in Japan for the Allies.

I just cant see any situation where a rational man would land at a place occupied by the federal government. Frankly, I think a smart man possessed by irrational thinking would be more likely to see a long runway as a tempting option.

Then he's committed by apologizing for his actions.

This part makes retroactive sense to me. The man admits "maybe I've got a screw loose," but he still realizes that any damage he was going to commit his been done. IMO, this seems like a planned apology, not some sort of return to conscience.

The whole thing is just so outrageous and odd. I can only speculate.

I agree 110%. All of this is speculation on my part as well, and there's really no making sense of it without a lot more context and evidence.

As usual, thanks for the compelling conversation!

>I sure have a lot of questions about this whole incident. He should have never had the opportunity to get the plane in the air. I've never even though to ask this question... but do planes even have keys? Or do they just rely on perimeter security and complexity to prevent theft? I know that military humvees have key-less ignition, so I guess its possible. Come to think of it, has a plane ever even been stolen? Obviously hijackings have happened, but what about a from-the-ground theft? Is this a first? I think it might be, at least for a US commercial airliner. >I'm baffled that he was capable of taking off and performing those stunts without any proper training. (Now that I think about it, perhaps he played a lot of flight simulators. He did work with aircraft for a living so it would not be far fetched.) I have a friend who was a pilot for a small cargo service in the tropics. He insisted that flying a plane is really easy. He even went as far as to say it was easier than the simulators, just because you could feel the air currents and g-forces. I asked him about this a few years after 9/11, so he didn't really comment on takeoff/landing. Obviously I can't comment on any of the stunts this recent thief pulled-off, but needless to say, I agree. I'm baffled as well, though maybe natural talent is a real thing. >I caught a bit of audio in which he admits to have only filled it with a small amount of fuel, and later admitted to not knowing how much it actually amounted to. So, when increasing the throttle to a point of performing a loop de loop, that would quickly eat through the limited load. I do trust you, but if you have a timestamp on that I wouldn't mind having it on hand for reference. >People would be out and about enjoying the cooler night air on their weekend. And that noise would be enough to make me put on pants and walk outside to investigate. A valid point. I don't really know the weather around those parts, but considering the cliche of rain in Washington, I can assume a clear day is worth enjoying. >None of this is a concrete answer. Just my opinion with what I know on the subject. It's certainly bizarre but I can't fathom how this could be spun into any usable conspiracy. Hey, I respect that and there's no need for the disclaimer. My gut feeling feeling of a conspiracy comes from the pure absurdity of this, but I'm completely willing to admit this could be anything or nothing at all. In my defense, my suspicions come from what might be called the "movie script" quality of the event. But again, I'm willing to admit that weird things happen. Perhaps hollywood is rubbing off on us as a culture. >On a side note, it's been rough for washington transportation with this and that amtrak crash last december. Interesting connection, thanks for mentioning it. >I also want to bring up that this was not the actions of a rational person, if he was in the midst of some sort of bi polar episode which seems likely based on his wildly changing priorities. Sometimes he wants to die, than he doesn't want to be hurt by landing at the military base. This is about the only part I might disagree with. Putting aside his (admittedly hilarious) sense of humor, I can understand not wanting to land a hijacked craft at a military base. That's 100% certain death. I maintain that point. Anyone who defies federal airspace will not live to make their case. The last (near) exception I can think of is Viktor Belenko landing a Russian aircraft in Japan for the Allies. I just cant see any situation where a rational man would land at a place occupied by the federal government. Frankly, I think a smart man possessed by irrational thinking would be more likely to see a long runway as a tempting option. >Then he's committed by apologizing for his actions. This part makes retroactive sense to me. The man admits "maybe I've got a screw loose," but he still realizes that any damage he was going to commit his been done. IMO, this seems like a planned apology, not some sort of return to conscience. >The whole thing is just so outrageous and odd. I can only speculate. I agree 110%. All of this is speculation on my part as well, and there's really no making sense of it without a lot more context and evidence. As usual, thanks for the compelling conversation!

[–] PhunkyPlatypus 0 points (+0|-0)

I've never even though to ask this question... but do planes even have keys? Or do they just rely on perimeter security and complexity to prevent theft? I know that military humvees have key-less ignition, so I guess its possible.

Come to think of it, has a plane ever even been stolen? Obviously hijackings have happened, but what about a from-the-ground theft? Is this a first? I think it might be, at least for a US commercial airliner.

It looks like small puddle jumpers have keys as they're often stored in less secure locations, but most commercial aircraft do not. I guess it's assumed if you know how to operate it, than you must belong there.

I can't find any precedence due to the noise from the this event. But it has to have happened, south America, the Eastern bloc or the middle east seems like the likeliest locations for that.

I have a friend who was a pilot for a small cargo service in the tropics. He insisted that flying a plane is really easy. He even went as far as to say it was easier than the simulators, just because you could feel the air currents and g-forces. I asked him about this a few years after 9/11, so he didn't really comment on takeoff/landing. Obviously I can't comment on any of the stunts this recent thief pulled-off, but needless to say, I agree. I'm baffled as well, though maybe natural talent is a real thing.

That makes sense, if you knew what buttons to push and how to properly take off, what to look out for etc., than it would translate well into real life. I assume he was pretty familiar if not somewhat intimate (No, not that way) with the model of aircraft would help. I did hear a news blip that they found flight sims on his personal computer.

As far as the time stamp. I don't know, I just listened to the first 12 minutes again and my GF is now annoyed. I swear I heard it in a video from one of your links though. He said something to effect of not realizing how much gas the plane actually used and only putting in a limited amount. Actually that may have been closer to the crash than the beginning, logically at least.

A valid point. I don't really know the weather around those parts, but considering the cliche of rain in Washington, I can assume a clear day is worth enjoying.

You're not wrong, summers are usually like one month long, this year has been super hot and dry again though.

Hey, I respect that and there's no need for the disclaimer. My gut feeling feeling of a conspiracy comes from the pure absurdity of this, but I'm completely willing to admit this could be anything or nothing at all. In my defense, my suspicions come from what might be called the "movie script" quality of the event. But again, I'm willing to admit that weird things happen. Perhaps hollywood is rubbing off on us as a culture.

This is a rare actual dialogue and discussions where neither of us care to call the other a cunt and devolve the conversation from there, this has been enjoyable.

This is about the only part I might disagree with. Putting aside his (admittedly hilarious) sense of humor, I can understand not wanting to land a hijacked craft at a military base. That's 100% certain death. I maintain that point. Anyone who defies federal airspace will not live to make their case. The last (near) exception I can think of is Viktor Belenko landing a Russian aircraft in Japan for the Allies.

Oh he's getting extra charges and and ass kicking for sure, double if he fucks up the landing. But keep in mind this event is being broadcast across the channel. I guarantee that within 10 minutes of this guy taking off Washington in general started going into various stages of lockdown. Plan for the worst case, hope for the best. With the Eagles that scrambled out of Portland, they show the military was very aware of the situation and wouldn't be caught by surprise.

It depends on what he deems logical outcomes of his adventure.

This part makes retroactive sense to me. The man admits "maybe I've got a screw loose," but he still realizes that any damage he was going to commit his been done. IMO, this seems like a planned apology, not some sort of return to conscience.

That's a hard call as it's just speculation and conjecture. Psychology is not something I'm well versed in. However I've been present for people having psychotic episodes. Some people remain calm but their thoughts aren't making any logical sense. Sometimes with bi polar and depression it's just fuck it, and you can't presently appreciate the gravity and consequences of your actions. At this point my main concern would be how the fuck am I gonna pull off landing this thing. His rambling and disjointed sentences, struggle to remain on topic and stuff. Indicates that he's not thinking clearly and concisely.

You may be right, perhaps it was part of a suicide note he's been writing in his head for weeks before. It may very well be him trying to cover for any blame laid on family or friends.

I can utilize some of my knowledge about geography and aviation. But sadly at this point it's just speculating on the mindset of a man I've never heard of. This has been quite enjoyable but I don't know where we can really take it from here.

> I've never even though to ask this question... but do planes even have keys? Or do they just rely on perimeter security and complexity to prevent theft? I know that military humvees have key-less ignition, so I guess its possible. > Come to think of it, has a plane ever even been stolen? Obviously hijackings have happened, but what about a from-the-ground theft? Is this a first? I think it might be, at least for a US commercial airliner. It looks like small puddle jumpers have keys as they're often stored in less secure locations, but most commercial aircraft do not. I guess it's assumed if you know how to operate it, than you must belong there. I can't find any precedence due to the noise from the this event. But it has to have happened, south America, the Eastern bloc or the middle east seems like the likeliest locations for that. > I have a friend who was a pilot for a small cargo service in the tropics. He insisted that flying a plane is really easy. He even went as far as to say it was easier than the simulators, just because you could feel the air currents and g-forces. I asked him about this a few years after 9/11, so he didn't really comment on takeoff/landing. Obviously I can't comment on any of the stunts this recent thief pulled-off, but needless to say, I agree. I'm baffled as well, though maybe natural talent is a real thing. That makes sense, if you knew what buttons to push and how to properly take off, what to look out for etc., than it would translate well into real life. I assume he was pretty familiar if not somewhat intimate (No, not that way) with the model of aircraft would help. I did hear a news blip that they found flight sims on his personal computer. As far as the time stamp. I don't know, I just listened to the first 12 minutes again and my GF is now annoyed. I swear I heard it in a video from one of your links though. He said something to effect of not realizing how much gas the plane actually used and only putting in a limited amount. Actually that may have been closer to the crash than the beginning, logically at least. > A valid point. I don't really know the weather around those parts, but considering the cliche of rain in Washington, I can assume a clear day is worth enjoying. You're not wrong, summers are usually like one month long, this year has been super hot and dry again though. > Hey, I respect that and there's no need for the disclaimer. My gut feeling feeling of a conspiracy comes from the pure absurdity of this, but I'm completely willing to admit this could be anything or nothing at all. In my defense, my suspicions come from what might be called the "movie script" quality of the event. But again, I'm willing to admit that weird things happen. Perhaps hollywood is rubbing off on us as a culture. This is a rare actual dialogue and discussions where neither of us care to call the other a cunt and devolve the conversation from there, this has been enjoyable. > This is about the only part I might disagree with. Putting aside his (admittedly hilarious) sense of humor, I can understand not wanting to land a hijacked craft at a military base. That's 100% certain death. I maintain that point. Anyone who defies federal airspace will not live to make their case. The last (near) exception I can think of is Viktor Belenko landing a Russian aircraft in Japan for the Allies. Oh he's getting extra charges and and ass kicking for sure, double if he fucks up the landing. But keep in mind this event is being broadcast across the channel. I guarantee that within 10 minutes of this guy taking off Washington in general started going into various stages of lockdown. Plan for the worst case, hope for the best. With the Eagles that scrambled out of Portland, they show the military was very aware of the situation and wouldn't be caught by surprise. It depends on what he deems logical outcomes of his adventure. > This part makes retroactive sense to me. The man admits "maybe I've got a screw loose," but he still realizes that any damage he was going to commit his been done. IMO, this seems like a planned apology, not some sort of return to conscience. That's a hard call as it's just speculation and conjecture. Psychology is not something I'm well versed in. However I've been present for people having psychotic episodes. Some people remain calm but their thoughts aren't making any logical sense. Sometimes with bi polar and depression it's just fuck it, and you can't presently appreciate the gravity and consequences of your actions. At this point my main concern would be how the fuck am I gonna pull off landing this thing. His rambling and disjointed sentences, struggle to remain on topic and stuff. Indicates that he's not thinking clearly and concisely. You may be right, perhaps it was part of a suicide note he's been writing in his head for weeks before. It may very well be him trying to cover for any blame laid on family or friends. I can utilize some of my knowledge about geography and aviation. But sadly at this point it's just speculating on the mindset of a man I've never heard of. This has been quite enjoyable but I don't know where we can really take it from here.

How does a plane with no fuel start such a big fire in a rainforest climate?

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