How does a plane with no fuel start such a big fire in a rainforest climate?

Edited

Fuel can be disproportionate between two engine, running out is a concern that should never happen under normal circumstances. So while one engine may stall due to lack of fuel, the other can keep running for a short time afterward until it too exhausts its reserve.

From the few audio clips I was able to find in a short period. It sounded like the man was pivoting between ending it all in a blaze of fire, and reconciling with his actions and landing.

Depends on how quick his altitude change was, low level has denser air. I'm not well versed in this field.

This one is the least speculative to answer. Flights are common in this area, no one pays much attention. That is until some mad man starts flying at 1,000 feet and attempts a barrel roll. The island is crashed on has about 20 full time residents. The surrounding area has less than 10,000. It seems that he happened to crash in a spot that happens to obstruct the view from the majority of witnesses. He's heard multiple times state that he doesn't want anyone but himself hurt, so he may have aimed for the most sparsely populated place he could find.

The AC-130 was a military accident, this is civilian aviation. The 130 went down very quickly from stable flight, to nose dive, to ground. This meanwhile, did a fucking loop do loop, after buzzing the top of a few towns. Plus, on that open water of puget sound he was over. Sound carries and reverberates very well, grabbing even more attention from those who would otherwise not seen it. (I think the news is trying to contradict any fears that it was a malevolent highjacking)

Finally, it's the middle of August, following the hottest July on record. Rain forest is far less applicable at this time of year, as well as the rain forest proper is further NorthWest on the Peninsula. Washington primarily burns on the eastern half of the cascade, but with wild and untamed vegetation growth, everywhere is kindling waiting to go.

From what I've been able to find, it sounds like a bizarre one off situation.

I'm assuming you're talking about that stolen plane in Washington. I haven't gotten a chance to look into it at all yet. If you could provide some links and sources, I'd love to take a crack and see if I can shed some light on at least a few of the points you brought up. Fuel can be disproportionate between two engine, running out is a concern that should never happen under normal circumstances. So while one engine may stall due to lack of fuel, the other can keep running for a short time afterward until it too exhausts its reserve. From the few audio clips I was able to find in a short period. It sounded like the man was pivoting between ending it all in a blaze of fire, and reconciling with his actions and landing. Depends on how quick his altitude change was, low level has denser air. I'm not well versed in this field. This one is the least speculative to answer. Flights are common in this area, no one pays much attention. That is until some mad man starts flying at 1,000 feet and attempts a barrel roll. The island is crashed on has about 20 full time residents. The surrounding area has less than 10,000. It seems that he happened to crash in a spot that happens to obstruct the view from the majority of witnesses. He's heard multiple times state that he doesn't want anyone but himself hurt, so he may have aimed for the most sparsely populated place he could find. The AC-130 was a military accident, this is civilian aviation. The 130 went down very quickly from stable flight, to nose dive, to ground. This meanwhile, did a fucking loop do loop, after buzzing the top of a few towns. Plus, on that open water of puget sound he was over. Sound carries and reverberates very well, grabbing even more attention from those who would otherwise not seen it. (I think the news is trying to contradict any fears that it was a malevolent highjacking) Finally, it's the middle of August, following the hottest July on record. Rain forest is far less applicable at this time of year, as well as the rain forest proper is further NorthWest on the Peninsula. Washington primarily burns on the eastern half of the cascade, but with wild and untamed vegetation growth, everywhere is kindling waiting to go. From what I've been able to find, it sounds like a bizarre one off situation.

[–] Sarcastaway [OP] 1 points (+1|-0)

Here a few of the sources I've found:

Air traffic control audio There's several versions, but this is the most complete that I can find.

Here is a compilation of all of the video that was available as of 12-18 hours after the crash. It has a shorter version of the ATC audio in the background. (Side note, whoever made this video is fast. It would take me at least a day to rip and edit all these together.)

The first minute and 25 seconds of audio appear to be unique to this video, and show the initial take-off radar data plus the chatter between ATC and other pilots as they witness the theft of the plane.

You make good points though. I still think the event was highly observed for such a low population area, and that the fire was a little much for a bone-dry aircraft crash, but I'll admit I don't know that region. It also seems a little too fitting that the guy runs out of gas within a couple minutes of the first time he's not over a populated area, but maybe those stunts really do burn that much fuel.

In any case, I'm just glad that no innocents were hurt. This could have been a lot worse.

[–] PhunkyPlatypus 1 points (+1|-0)

Edited

I caught a bit of audio in which he admits to have only filled it with a small amount of fuel, and later admitted to not knowing how much it actually amounted to. So, when increasing the throttle to a point of performing a loop de loop, that would quickly eat through the limited load.

The fire didn't honestly look so bad, not anything to what I would expect from even a few hundred pounds of jet fuel. From my experience the fire looked like a standard wild fire. Underbrush and foliage primarily burning. Shit is super dry right now, even on a small island surrounded by fire. It's been at least 6 weeks since a good rain, combined with 90 degree temps. Washington rainforests arent like south american or east pacific rainforests. They're much more temperate.

As far as the amount of phone footage. This took place at what 9 pm on friday or saturday night? Regardless it was hot as balls, and that would be right about when things started cooling off. People would be out and about enjoying the cooler night air on their weekend. And that noise would be enough to make me put on pants and walk outside to investigate. Those videos you can hear the engines screaming and reverberating.

None of this is a concrete answer. Just my opinion with what I know on the subject. It's certainly bizarre but I can't fathom how this could be spun into any usable conspiracy. It just makes no sense at all. Sometimes weird shit happens and it makes no sense. But there's so little precedence for this sort of thing to compare to, it's just wild speculations from every corner to make sense.

On a side note, it's been rough for washington transportation with this and that amtrak crash last december.

I also want to bring up that this was not the actions of a rational person, if he was in the midst of some sort of bi polar episode which seems likely based on his wildly changing priorities. Sometimes he wants to die, than he doesn't want to be hurt by landing at the military base. Then he's committed by apologizing for his actions. The whole thing is just so outrageous and odd. I can only speculate.

I sure have a lot of questions about this whole incident. He should have never had the opportunity to get the plane in the air. I'm baffled that he was capable of taking off and performing those stunts without any proper training. (Now that I think about it, perhaps he played a lot of flight simulators. He did work with aircraft for a living so it would not be far fetched.) I caught a bit of audio in which he admits to have only filled it with a small amount of fuel, and later admitted to not knowing how much it actually amounted to. So, when increasing the throttle to a point of performing a loop de loop, that would quickly eat through the limited load. The fire didn't honestly look so bad, not anything to what I would expect from even a few hundred pounds of jet fuel. From my experience the fire looked like a standard wild fire. Underbrush and foliage primarily burning. Shit is super dry right now, even on a small island surrounded by fire. It's been at least 6 weeks since a good rain, combined with 90 degree temps. Washington rainforests arent like south american or east pacific rainforests. They're much more temperate. As far as the amount of phone footage. This took place at what 9 pm on friday or saturday night? Regardless it was hot as balls, and that would be right about when things started cooling off. People would be out and about enjoying the cooler night air on their weekend. And that noise would be enough to make me put on pants and walk outside to investigate. Those videos you can hear the engines screaming and reverberating. None of this is a concrete answer. Just my opinion with what I know on the subject. It's certainly bizarre but I can't fathom how this could be spun into any usable conspiracy. It just makes no sense at all. Sometimes weird shit happens and it makes no sense. But there's so little precedence for this sort of thing to compare to, it's just wild speculations from every corner to make sense. On a side note, it's been rough for washington transportation with this and that amtrak crash last december. I also want to bring up that this was not the actions of a rational person, if he was in the midst of some sort of bi polar episode which seems likely based on his wildly changing priorities. Sometimes he wants to die, than he doesn't want to be hurt by landing at the military base. Then he's committed by apologizing for his actions. The whole thing is just so outrageous and odd. I can only speculate.

[–] Sarcastaway [OP] 0 points (+0|-0)

I sure have a lot of questions about this whole incident. He should have never had the opportunity to get the plane in the air.

I've never even though to ask this question... but do planes even have keys? Or do they just rely on perimeter security and complexity to prevent theft? I know that military humvees have key-less ignition, so I guess its possible.

Come to think of it, has a plane ever even been stolen? Obviously hijackings have happened, but what about a from-the-ground theft? Is this a first? I think it might be, at least for a US commercial airliner.

I'm baffled that he was capable of taking off and performing those stunts without any proper training. (Now that I think about it, perhaps he played a lot of flight simulators. He did work with aircraft for a living so it would not be far fetched.)

I have a friend who was a pilot for a small cargo service in the tropics. He insisted that flying a plane is really easy. He even went as far as to say it was easier than the simulators, just because you could feel the air currents and g-forces. I asked him about this a few years after 9/11, so he didn't really comment on takeoff/landing. Obviously I can't comment on any of the stunts this recent thief pulled-off, but needless to say, I agree. I'm baffled as well, though maybe natural talent is a real thing.

I caught a bit of audio in which he admits to have only filled it with a small amount of fuel, and later admitted to not knowing how much it actually amounted to. So, when increasing the throttle to a point of performing a loop de loop, that would quickly eat through the limited load.

I do trust you, but if you have a timestamp on that I wouldn't mind having it on hand for reference.

People would be out and about enjoying the cooler night air on their weekend. And that noise would be enough to make me put on pants and walk outside to investigate.

A valid point. I don't really know the weather around those parts, but considering the cliche of rain in Washington, I can assume a clear day is worth enjoying.

None of this is a concrete answer. Just my opinion with what I know on the subject. It's certainly bizarre but I can't fathom how this could be spun into any usable conspiracy.

Hey, I respect that and there's no need for the disclaimer. My gut feeling feeling of a conspiracy comes from the pure absurdity of this, but I'm completely willing to admit this could be anything or nothing at all. In my defense, my suspicions come from what might be called the "movie script" quality of the event. But again, I'm willing to admit that weird things happen. Perhaps hollywood is rubbing off on us as a culture.

On a side note, it's been rough for washington transportation with this and that amtrak crash last december.

Interesting connection, thanks for mentioning it.

I also want to bring up that this was not the actions of a rational person, if he was in the midst of some sort of bi polar episode which seems likely based on his wildly changing priorities. Sometimes he wants to die, than he doesn't want to be hurt by landing at the military base.

This is about the only part I might disagree with. Putting aside his (admittedly hilarious) sense of humor, I can understand not wanting to land a hijacked craft at a military base. That's 100% certain death. I maintain that point. Anyone who defies federal airspace will not live to make their case. The last (near) exception I can think of is Viktor Belenko landing a Russian aircraft in Japan for the Allies.

I just cant see any situation where a rational man would land at a place occupied by the federal government. Frankly, I think a smart man possessed by irrational thinking would be more likely to see a long runway as a tempting option.

Then he's committed by apologizing for his actions.

This part makes retroactive sense to me. The man admits "maybe I've got a screw loose," but he still realizes that any damage he was going to commit his been done. IMO, this seems like a planned apology, not some sort of return to conscience.

The whole thing is just so outrageous and odd. I can only speculate.

I agree 110%. All of this is speculation on my part as well, and there's really no making sense of it without a lot more context and evidence.

As usual, thanks for the compelling conversation!

>I sure have a lot of questions about this whole incident. He should have never had the opportunity to get the plane in the air. I've never even though to ask this question... but do planes even have keys? Or do they just rely on perimeter security and complexity to prevent theft? I know that military humvees have key-less ignition, so I guess its possible. Come to think of it, has a plane ever even been stolen? Obviously hijackings have happened, but what about a from-the-ground theft? Is this a first? I think it might be, at least for a US commercial airliner. >I'm baffled that he was capable of taking off and performing those stunts without any proper training. (Now that I think about it, perhaps he played a lot of flight simulators. He did work with aircraft for a living so it would not be far fetched.) I have a friend who was a pilot for a small cargo service in the tropics. He insisted that flying a plane is really easy. He even went as far as to say it was easier than the simulators, just because you could feel the air currents and g-forces. I asked him about this a few years after 9/11, so he didn't really comment on takeoff/landing. Obviously I can't comment on any of the stunts this recent thief pulled-off, but needless to say, I agree. I'm baffled as well, though maybe natural talent is a real thing. >I caught a bit of audio in which he admits to have only filled it with a small amount of fuel, and later admitted to not knowing how much it actually amounted to. So, when increasing the throttle to a point of performing a loop de loop, that would quickly eat through the limited load. I do trust you, but if you have a timestamp on that I wouldn't mind having it on hand for reference. >People would be out and about enjoying the cooler night air on their weekend. And that noise would be enough to make me put on pants and walk outside to investigate. A valid point. I don't really know the weather around those parts, but considering the cliche of rain in Washington, I can assume a clear day is worth enjoying. >None of this is a concrete answer. Just my opinion with what I know on the subject. It's certainly bizarre but I can't fathom how this could be spun into any usable conspiracy. Hey, I respect that and there's no need for the disclaimer. My gut feeling feeling of a conspiracy comes from the pure absurdity of this, but I'm completely willing to admit this could be anything or nothing at all. In my defense, my suspicions come from what might be called the "movie script" quality of the event. But again, I'm willing to admit that weird things happen. Perhaps hollywood is rubbing off on us as a culture. >On a side note, it's been rough for washington transportation with this and that amtrak crash last december. Interesting connection, thanks for mentioning it. >I also want to bring up that this was not the actions of a rational person, if he was in the midst of some sort of bi polar episode which seems likely based on his wildly changing priorities. Sometimes he wants to die, than he doesn't want to be hurt by landing at the military base. This is about the only part I might disagree with. Putting aside his (admittedly hilarious) sense of humor, I can understand not wanting to land a hijacked craft at a military base. That's 100% certain death. I maintain that point. Anyone who defies federal airspace will not live to make their case. The last (near) exception I can think of is Viktor Belenko landing a Russian aircraft in Japan for the Allies. I just cant see any situation where a rational man would land at a place occupied by the federal government. Frankly, I think a smart man possessed by irrational thinking would be more likely to see a long runway as a tempting option. >Then he's committed by apologizing for his actions. This part makes retroactive sense to me. The man admits "maybe I've got a screw loose," but he still realizes that any damage he was going to commit his been done. IMO, this seems like a planned apology, not some sort of return to conscience. >The whole thing is just so outrageous and odd. I can only speculate. I agree 110%. All of this is speculation on my part as well, and there's really no making sense of it without a lot more context and evidence. As usual, thanks for the compelling conversation!

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How does a plane with no fuel start such a big fire in a rainforest climate?

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