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27 comments

[–] Owlchemy 4 points (+4|-0)

Taking criminals who illegally crossed the border and are awaiting a court date away is not abducting a child. Every day in the good old USA, as in the vast majority of the worlds countries, the children of criminals are taken from their parents when their parents break the law. Those children aren't placed in day care facilities with full services. If you're outraged by this, then you must be especially outraged when a rapist's child no longer has his daddy at home.

[–] smallpond 0 points (+3|-3)

Your use of the word "criminal" to refer to someone crossing a border without permission is striking, and highlights the separation of decency and law in my eyes.

Perhaps if you could imagine yourself in their situation, you might find yourself doing the same thing seeking a better life for your children - there many far worse ways to get branded a 'criminal'. Perhaps it's fair enough that you might seek to exclude such people purely for your own benefit and your country's benefit, and make them suffer in all manner of arbitrary ways as a deterrent. However, I'd be cautious about elevating yourself above them morally - I can't pretend to do that.

[–] Owlchemy 4 points (+4|-0)

There are 7.6 billion people in the world? How many of those 7.6 billion people would love to come to the USA? The numbers are staggering and one needs to control the influx or the USA becomes the place those folks are fleeing. Yes criminal may be a harsh word, but it also a correct word. We are a nation of laws and it is against our laws to enter the country illegally.

Where do you draw the line ... who of those 7.6 million folks can come in and who can't. It is our right to decide, not there's.

[–] smallpond 2 points (+3|-1)

I'm pretty sure I covered all that:

Perhaps it's fair enough that you might seek to exclude such people purely for your own benefit and your country's benefit, and make them suffer in all manner of arbitrary ways as a deterrent.

I think you know this sentence was the main point of my comment:

However, I'd be cautious about elevating yourself above them morally - I can't pretend to do that.

[–] [Deleted] 1 points (+2|-1)

If you've put your kid in this position... you're an unfit parent. Wear a condom next time.

[–] cyclops1771 [OP] -2 points (+0|-2)

If they want to take a baby from the arms of his mother and separate the two, that’s wrong. I don’t care where you’re at, what time and condition, that just goes against — you don’t have to read the Bible for that. That goes against human decency. That goes against human dignity. It goes against what’s most sacred in the human person.

So, they want to disband children services?

If you think it's a bullshit article, why did you post it?

[–] Owlchemy 3 points (+3|-0)

The children of criminals everywhere in the world are taken from their parents. This whole argument makes no sense. I hear no outrage when any other criminal's son misses his daddy on Father's day. Same thing, illegal border crosser. A crime was committed ... those who brought the children here are incarcerated awaiting judgement ... the children who accompanied them are well cared for in decent facilities awaiting either resettlement with legal relatives in the US or returning to their homes.

You're preaching to the choir with me.
I'm all for removing children from some criminal parents. I also have no issue with boarder-jumping children being temporarily separated from their parents.
Those parents are using their children as a tool, and exposing them to criminal actions and nasty people (coyotes). They are being very bad parents.
The best thing for the child is to be removed and handed over to other family who are more responsible. And by doing so it removes the incentive for these people to drag the children across. That is all win for the children, fuck the parents.

Of course there is danger in allowing the government to make that decision, so like most things, balance is key.

It seemed odd to me that Op would post it, then discredit it in the comments. That's the only reason I commented. The article is so bad it's not worth discussing.

[–] cyclops1771 [OP] 1 points (+2|-1) Edited

I think it is important to understand all sides of the argument.

These are the arguments and viewpoint that is being spread through MSM and Social media all day as a political tool.

Do you not think it is important to vet out responses, find viewpoints and arguments that refute it, or discuss what is wrong with their viewpoint?

I generally learn a lot more by listening to, and attempting to find holes in other's arguments than by simply dismissing them as stupid or childish, and simply saying, "i'm right, you're wrong, so you should just shut up and agree with me!"

Do you not think it is important to vet out responses, find viewpoints and arguments that refute it, or discuss what is wrong with their viewpoint?

That's not what you're doing.
You post this site, and similar viewpoints exclusively. If you were interested in discussion and learning there would be some variety, and some actual discussion. Both of which are absent.

"i'm right, you're wrong, so you should just shut up and agree with me!"

Specifically who are you quoting or referring to there?
The idea that one must spread views they disagree with or else they are taking that stance is more than a little retarded.