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8 comments

[–] [Deleted] 4 points (+4|-0)

If one illegal commits a crime, that's one crime that happened which should not have. Therefore the crime rate was increased.

We all know the academics are heavily biased against Trump, I would not be surprised if that carried into this study.

[–] smallpond [OP] 0 points (+0|-0)

If you feel strongly about it, you could always read the study properly and give us a summary of its flaws (as would I if I cared enough). Scientific articles are usually quite amenable to investigation.

Saying you can ignore inconvenient studies because academics don't like Trump puts you on a pretty weak footing in my eyes.

[–] [Deleted] 1 points (+1|-0)

I have no desire to spend my time doing such. I've given you my logic on the subject.

Any illegal that is here and commits a crime, that is a crime that should not have happened. If they are not causing crime to increase, they are preventing it from decreasing.

[–] smallpond [OP] 0 points (+0|-0)

I tend to think of crime rate as per head of population, per unit time. For example murders per 1 million people per year. From that point of view if you introduce new people whose rate of committing crimes is less than the established population, they are decreasing the crime rate.

You seem to be thinking of a raw sort of crime rate per unit time so that more people = more crime basically no matter what people you introduce. If you don't divide by a standard unit of population, you'll also find that getting rid of any class of people should reduce the crime rate by reducing the population.

Anyway, as you've said, your opinion on the matter is clear.

[–] Dudicles 1 points (+1|-0)

"WTF, I love illegal immigration now!" That unrealistic sentiment and an attempt to normalize and legitimize illegal immigration is truly the only point of even attempting a study like this.

I don't care if it's violent crime or non-violent. They shouldn't have the opportunity for any crime, because they shouldn't be in the country in the first place.

Regardless of crime, they still take up space, they take up resources that could and should be going to legal citizens of the country, they take jobs that could and should be going to legal citizens, they fill hospitals and medical centers and the cost is passed onto tax payers and health care payers, etc etc.

The fact that a study like this exists is insulting. Plus, the very first sentence sets up the whole study as simply an anti-Trump tool, which is consistent with NPR.

[–] smallpond [OP] 1 points (+1|-0)

Just putting it out there for discussion - no need to shoot the messenger.

[–] Owlchemy 3 points (+3|-0)

This study thoroughly misses the point ... as highlighted by a single counter voice at the end of it.

"It's actually immaterial whether they commit more crimes or not because they commit additional crimes," Dykes says. "They are crimes that would not be committed. There are American citizens who'd be alive today if [unauthorized immigrants] were not in this country."

When your son or daughter, husband or wife, brother or sister, et al, is killed by an alien illegally in any country, a study like this is meaningless and not even relevant to the discussion. It's mixing apples and oranges. There are legitimate ways to enter (again) any country. Those who follow the rules are welcome with open arms. Those who cut in line are not.

[–] smallpond [OP] 0 points (+0|-0) Edited

It depends whether you define the "the point" according to the current political debate about immigrants.

Assuming they have no major errors, the studies should have their own well-defined point about the violent crime rate of illegal immigrants. As per your and @Dudicles' comments, that point is only a very small part of the wider debate about immigrants, and has nothing to do with many other reasons for people to object to taking them in. Clearly the study does not prove that you are wrong for not wanting them in the country for 100 other reasons.

Some people seem to accept or reject scientific conclusions based purely on their ideological stances - the flat earth lies down that road.