Rules Section Only of the Manifesto

[–] sidewalker_Principle 2 points (+2|-0)

Holy shit this is the real deal. Is this your own work?

Not my work. The work of 7e62ce85. He's not on Phuks right now b/c he believes that this will be censored eventually. I'm here now to post this stuff anyway.

You could always contact him to ask questions/request citizenship etc. @ BM-2cVyxL3UgYZNJ7SHvzWRWWGErAimzsXymd

[–] sidewalker_Principle 1 points (+1|-0)

Request citizenship? Thats kind of larpy isn't it? Still an interesting idea though.

And Phuks is definitely going to be censored since the admins want to keep the site hooked up to google. I'm not bashing anybody here, its their site they can do what they want with it, but definitely the foundations for anonymity and true freedom are not here.

I still love Phuks.

[–] X175B247 [OP] 1 points (+1|-0)

As well, I'll answer any questions I can.

[–] X175B247 [OP] 0 points (+0|-0)

Edited

As of now it'll be hooked up to google but I want this at least as an okay backup to voat's EN.

Larpy? I guess as much as any other attempt at building micronations. However, this one has laws, budgets, taxes, provisions for armed forces, clearly defined voting, etc.

I love Phuks too. It's nice to post here.

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[–] PMYA 0 points (+0|-0)

the admins want to keep the site hooked up to google

I'm not sure what you mean by this, but if it's captcha related, we're getting rid of those and hosting our own.

[–] Boukert 1 points (+1|-0)

Edited

I see a number of pretty big flaws in this maniphesto for it to ever work and am wondering if you are open to a civil debate about this?

50 . Neither the council nor the people can change this document.

Soo your call

[–] X175B247 [OP] 1 points (+1|-0)

Hey Boukert,

Yes I'm definitely open to discussion and debate. For the record I did not write this manifesto and do have some things I would change about it. Like mandatory DNA testing for all children.

One of the ideas built into the manifesto is that others can start their own communities with an amended or changed version.

[–] Boukert 0 points (+0|-0)

Edited

In my eyes there seem to be multiple issues with the "maniphesto" as these rules seem very dubious and even contradict each other on some occasions.

but i'll try and keep it short and offer a couple at a time so we can have a normal conversation:

From the get-go I have severe issues with this:

49 The council may create further laws, but this document supersedes any law they make. Any such laws must also be specifically reintroduced by each successive council.

52 . Neither the council nor the people can change this document.

Especially since it's a theoretical manifesto and has not been tried yet. So believing the document to be "above others" without being tested is dubious at best. It also makes me think of the Quran in the way it presents itself as "the ultimate truth" which makes it impossible to criticize or amend the text to any needs, trail&errors or modernization.

As you state it can be used as a template, but i still needed to make the point. The guy mentioned in the pdf/ the writer does seem very serious about this, claim's he's investing money in it and calling on ppl to join/contribute.

I'll start with economics and taxation:

14 The currency shall be cryptocurrency, silver and/or gold.

15 During phase 1 the yearly cost to be and remain a citizen shall be equivalent to 10 grams of silver (~2 beers/~5 USD 2017).

16 During phase 2 the yearly cost to be and remain a citizen shall be equivalent to 100 grams of silver (~20 beers/~52 USD 2017).

17 During phase 3 the yearly cost to be and remain a citizen shall be equivalent to 850 grams of silver (~170 beers/~480 USD 2017).

19 . The taxes cannot be changed or increased and there will be no other taxes.

20 If you cannot pay to be a citizen service in the military or police or doing other unpaid service is allowed instead. This applies to any rule mentioning ‘payment of the tax’.

24 You must be a citizen to reside in nation territory. Otherwise you must leave. (tourists may pay for periods shorter than a year, but must pay double the normal daily rate)

25 The taxes cannot be lowered either and non-citizens must leave.

68 Any who wishes to join your nation should be allowed to do so provided they pay the tax OR work for it (such as unpaid government/militia work).

So my first major objection here is that the taxes are in absolute products or undefined "services" based on absolutes. How does inflation, free market or price fluctuations work here? Lets say the price of Silver, gold or crypto currency skyrockets, there is no way to compensate so people will go broke trying to cough up their tax.... Let's say the price drops then the state would go bankrupt .
Secondly, there is no budget or idea what kind of budget is needed for "the state" to function. How many military or police is needed, what do private security companies cost? What if this is way more tax then needed and the state gets to rich? What happens if war breaks out and the state is broke? What if it's to few income to be able to maintain order... etc etc etc
Thirdly what would happen if everyone volunteered services instead of paying taxes? Where are these services based on, how are they valued?

Any economic can tell you hard cast absolutes as taxes are a bad idea and will not work in practice.

Rule 25 makes no sense whatsoever: "25 The taxes cannot be lowered either and non-citizens must leave."

"either" is this meant to refer to #24? ..... cause it feels like it refers to #19 and has no business being there.
"and non-citizens must leave." ehm.... wut wut? this is clearly a reference to #24 but it makes no sense at all even in that context to include this in this rule.

Taxation 2

22 You must be a citizen and 18 years old to vote and considered an independent adult.

61 Parents must pay citizenship for their children or leave the nation.

70 Citizens who stop paying tax for any reason must be expelled from the nation. No Exceptions.

71 Women and children who cannot pay tax for any reason must be expelled from the nation. No exceptions.

72 Cute little girls who cannot pay tax for any reason must be expelled from the nation. No exceptions.

73 Old innocent people who cannot pay tax for any reason must be expelled from the nation. No exceptions.

There is no clear definition of "citizen" in the rules, which worries me. #4 - #9 lists some rights belonging to citizens but no clear definitions.

Rule #22 implies Women are not seen as citizens (or is it independent adults?) as they cannot vote due to #1 . #71 adds to the implication that they are not, as they are separately mentioned.

Rule #22 also implies women can't be considered as "an independent adult" (#1) so who pays their taxes? Men become independent at 18 so it's reasonable to assume from this that they pay their own taxes. But what about "dependent adults", do "their parents pay, or the man or what?

Rule 71 children don't pay taxes, their parents do! #61

Rules 72 and 73 are clearly abundant and depending on above answers so is #71 .

In my eyes there seem to be multiple issues with the "maniphesto" as these rules seem very dubious and even contradict each other on some occasions. but i'll try and keep it short and offer a couple at a time so we can have a normal conversation: From the get-go I have severe issues with this: > 49 The council may create further laws, but this document supersedes any law they make. Any such laws must also be specifically reintroduced by each successive council. > 52 . Neither the council nor the people can change this document. Especially since it's a theoretical manifesto and has not been tried yet. So believing the document to be "above others" without being tested is dubious at best. It also makes me think of the Quran in the way it presents itself as "the ultimate truth" which makes it impossible to criticize or amend the text to any needs, trail&errors or modernization. As you state it can be used as a template, but i still needed to make the point. The guy mentioned in the pdf/ the writer does seem very serious about this, claim's he's investing money in it and calling on ppl to join/contribute. ------------------------- I'll start with economics and taxation: > 14 The currency shall be cryptocurrency, silver and/or gold. > 15 During phase 1 the yearly cost to be and remain a citizen shall be equivalent to 10 grams of silver (~2 beers/~5 USD 2017). > 16 During phase 2 the yearly cost to be and remain a citizen shall be equivalent to 100 grams of silver (~20 beers/~52 USD 2017). > 17 During phase 3 the yearly cost to be and remain a citizen shall be equivalent to 850 grams of silver (~170 beers/~480 USD 2017). > 19 . The taxes cannot be changed or increased and there will be no other taxes. > 20 If you cannot pay to be a citizen service in the military or police or doing other unpaid service is allowed instead. This applies to any rule mentioning ‘payment of the tax’. > 24 You must be a citizen to reside in nation territory. Otherwise you must leave. (tourists may pay for periods shorter than a year, but must pay double the normal daily rate) > 25 The taxes cannot be lowered either and non-citizens must leave. > 68 Any who wishes to join your nation should be allowed to do so provided they pay the tax OR work for it (such as unpaid government/militia work). - So my first major objection here is that the taxes are in absolute products or undefined "services" based on absolutes. How does inflation, free market or price fluctuations work here? Lets say the price of Silver, gold or crypto currency skyrockets, there is no way to compensate so people will go broke trying to cough up their tax.... Let's say the price drops then the state would go bankrupt . - Secondly, there is no budget or idea what kind of budget is needed for "the state" to function. How many military or police is needed, what do private security companies cost? What if this is way more tax then needed and the state gets to rich? What happens if war breaks out and the state is broke? What if it's to few income to be able to maintain order... etc etc etc - Thirdly what would happen if everyone volunteered services instead of paying taxes? Where are these services based on, how are they valued? Any economic can tell you hard cast absolutes as taxes are a bad idea and will not work in practice. Rule 25 makes no sense whatsoever: "25 The taxes cannot be lowered either and non-citizens must leave." - "either" is this meant to refer to #24? ..... cause it feels like it refers to #19 and has no business being there. - "and non-citizens must leave." ehm.... wut wut? this is clearly a reference to #24 but it makes no sense at all even in that context to include this in this rule. ---------------------- **Taxation 2** >22 You must be a citizen and 18 years old to vote and considered an independent adult. >61 Parents must pay citizenship for their children or leave the nation. >70 Citizens who stop paying tax for any reason must be expelled from the nation. No Exceptions. >71 Women and children who cannot pay tax for any reason must be expelled from the nation. No exceptions. >72 Cute little girls who cannot pay tax for any reason must be expelled from the nation. No exceptions. >73 Old innocent people who cannot pay tax for any reason must be expelled from the nation. No exceptions. - There is no clear definition of "citizen" in the rules, which worries me. #4 - #9 lists some rights belonging to citizens but no clear definitions. Rule #22 implies Women are not seen as citizens (or is it independent adults?) as they cannot vote due to #1 . #71 adds to the implication that they are not, as they are separately mentioned. Rule #22 also implies women can't be considered as "an independent adult" (#1) so who pays their taxes? Men become independent at 18 so it's reasonable to assume from this that they pay their own taxes. But what about "dependent adults", do "their parents pay, or the man or what? Rule 71 children don't pay taxes, their parents do! #61 Rules 72 and 73 are clearly abundant and depending on above answers so is #71 .

[–] [Deleted] 0 points (+0|-0)

So in other words, women are relegated back to the 1800's and as good as cattle? Better find some friendly lady sheep to bed with because no woman is going to buy into this; I see of course it's legal to have sex with children. Yes, fourteen year-olds are children. Makes me think of the extreme arm of LDS.

[–] X175B247 [OP] 0 points (+0|-0)

[Continued]

59 Businesses facilitating prostitution, surrogacy and contracted mothers are legal.

60 Paternity tests are required for all children.

61 Parents must pay citizenship for their children or leave the nation.

62 If the government is called upon to decide visitation it should always be 7 days at each parent unless a parent is proven in court to be a threat to the child's life or raping the child.

63 If the state is called upon to decide custody, the father always has custody unless he is convicted of hard crime.

64 There will be no alimony, child support or similar concepts.

65 In a divorce both parties keep their own belongings unless they explicitly signed other contracts.

66 As long as a woman chooses to stay married she cannot be raped by her husband.

67 Both men and women may divorce for any reason.

68 Any who wishes to join your nation should be allowed to do so provided they pay the tax OR work for it (such as unpaid government/militia work).

69 Nations, tribes, movements and other areas should be allowed to join your nation provided they accept the rules here.

70 Citizens who stop paying tax for any reason must be expelled from the nation. No Exceptions.

71 Women and children who cannot pay tax for any reason must be expelled from the nation. No exceptions.

72 Cute little girls who cannot pay tax for any reason must be expelled from the nation. No exceptions.

73 Old innocent people who cannot pay tax for any reason must be expelled from the nation. No exceptions.

74 People arguing for non-citizens staying or preventing their exile should be exiled. Non-citizens being persons not paying the tax nor paying it by working for free.

75 Exiled persons should be allowed to bring whatever belongings they can with them and sell their properties in the Emergency Nation in absentia within 6 months. If the 6 month time frame is exceeded the properties must be sold to the highest bidding citizen in an open auction and the earnings used as tax money.

76 Being forced to leave or exile is not permanent. Citizenship can always be reacquired by satisfying the requirements stated in these rules, but only then. Renouncements of ill intent and zombie faiths must be sincere or this rule will not apply.

[Continued] 59 Businesses facilitating prostitution, surrogacy and contracted mothers are legal. 60 Paternity tests are required for all children. 61 Parents must pay citizenship for their children or leave the nation. 62 If the government is called upon to decide visitation it should always be 7 days at each parent unless a parent is proven in court to be a threat to the child's life or raping the child. 63 If the state is called upon to decide custody, the father always has custody unless he is convicted of hard crime. 64 There will be no alimony, child support or similar concepts. 65 In a divorce both parties keep their own belongings unless they explicitly signed other contracts. 66 As long as a woman chooses to stay married she cannot be raped by her husband. 67 Both men and women may divorce for any reason. 68 Any who wishes to join your nation should be allowed to do so provided they pay the tax OR work for it (such as unpaid government/militia work). 69 Nations, tribes, movements and other areas should be allowed to join your nation provided they accept the rules here. 70 Citizens who stop paying tax for any reason must be expelled from the nation. No Exceptions. 71 Women and children who cannot pay tax for any reason must be expelled from the nation. No exceptions. 72 Cute little girls who cannot pay tax for any reason must be expelled from the nation. No exceptions. 73 Old innocent people who cannot pay tax for any reason must be expelled from the nation. No exceptions. 74 People arguing for non-citizens staying or preventing their exile should be exiled. Non-citizens being persons not paying the tax nor paying it by working for free. 75 Exiled persons should be allowed to bring whatever belongings they can with them and sell their properties in the Emergency Nation in absentia within 6 months. If the 6 month time frame is exceeded the properties must be sold to the highest bidding citizen in an open auction and the earnings used as tax money. 76 Being forced to leave or exile is not permanent. Citizenship can always be reacquired by satisfying the requirements stated in these rules, but only then. Renouncements of ill intent and zombie faiths must be sincere or this rule will not apply.

Rules Section Only of the Manifesto

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