You're correct that he is only going to hurt himself by expressing these opinions.
But I really don't see anything wrong with what he is saying.
The confederates were a part of American history, and part of what made the US into what it has become.
If they are happy with the progress that is being made, then they should celebrate the history that got them here.
A monument does not mean "Everything this person did was good". It just means they were a part of significant events.
As an example, I'll use Chris Columbus. The guy was seriously evil, and kind of dumb. But he is worthy of a monument because his actions changed the world in a very big way.
And Trumps comments on the violence were accurate. There has been more politically related violence from the left, than any other group. The car murder was likely the result of escalation back and forth. That does not justify anything, but the violence can not be dealt with if people refuse to honestly look at what is happening, and acknowledge that it is not limited to any one group.
That said, Trump is a fool if he thinks expressing those ideas isn't going to be twisted and used against him.
To the far left, this is proof of him being a racist. To the right, it's just common sense. To the media it's increased sales if they spin it well.
It just leads to further polarization, and everyone loses.
on the subject of Trump:
He's only made bad moves for the last few months, all of them seem to be dominated by gut feelings and short sightedness. If he would tone those down i would have given him a chance to become a half decent president.
Now he's only estranging himself more and more from the republican party and atleast 70% of the citizens by going to much right wing.
I dont understand statues of generals who lost a rebellion in the first place. Especially if they fought for "the wrong cause", these never should have been erected. It's not like you see statues of Erwin Rommel in Germany for example. (not a nazi, he served in the wehrmacht, but a great fucking general)
Most of these statues where erected not during the civil war but between 1911 - 1930
The confederates were a part of American history, and part of what made the US into what it has become. If they are happy with the progress that is being made, then they should celebrate the history that got them here. A monument does not mean "Everything this person did was good". It just means they were a part of significant events.
Thing is the "significant event" these people are glorified for are: fighting for a rebellion against the US and upkeeping slavery.
I'd be more concerned if it where monuments of writers, poets, musicians, explorers, inventors, etc etc who had slaves in the time (wich was a custom) or served for the south during the war. This is more a comparrison to Lenin and Stalin statues taken down in my eyes. "you dont glorify the bad the losers or the traitors"
In this trend I am worried about statues in Brussels with Dutch engravings for example. Those where erected while the region was Dutch language but now there are forces pushing to add french language engravings duo to billingual.......
And Trumps comments on the violence were accurate. There has been more politically related violence from the left, than any other group. The car murder was likely the result of escalation back and forth. That does not justify anything, but the violence can not be dealt with if people refuse to honestly look at what is happening, and acknowledge that it is not limited to any one group.
I dont think so: What I clearly miss from Trump is seperating "violence" and an attack by one of the Right wing protestors with a car on counter-protestors and random ppl stuck in their cars in front of him.
No matter what "escalations back and forth" there is no measure, justification, softening or downplaying for him to: plough a car at speed into other people AND innocent bystanders. This should be pointed out, denounced and rejected by everyone, especially a president "calling for unity".
Do I expect brawls, riots and bullshit when two opposite protestors meet? Yes, especially when one side carries swastika's, torches and "Hail Trump" Nazi style. In the NL you would be harrased by just random people on the street for that kind of display, in Germany you even get arrested. The right-wing was begging for it.
Do I expect a terrorist attack with a car? No, that's another level.
There have been many incidents with left wing protestors in the last few years, a lot of annoying actions, some violence and even riots. Not a pretty sight and a lot off bullshit ideology I agree. I'm the first to say they are idiots but those usually don't end in murder and death though. I also think BLM and SJW's are one of the main reasons Trump actually won.
Incidents involving serious attacks and even deaths have been coming more from the right this year i think, as seen on wikipedia: Right wing incidents involving deaths 2017: 4
I dont have info on left wing deaths though, so please enlighten me if you have them as I am intersted.
If Trump wants to make a point about "left wing violence" he shouldn't have spoken about it after this weekend with the car attack. But taken another moment when the left was plundering and rioting. Now he only made it worse for himself
He's only made bad moves for the last few months.. If Trump wants to make a point about "left wing violence" he shouldn't have spoken about it after this weekend with the car attack. But taken another moment when the left was plundering and rioting. Now he only made it worse for himself
Agreed.
Thing is the "significant event" these people are glorified for are: fighting for a rebellion against the US and upkeeping slavery.
That's what you and I remember them for, but that is not universal. My understanding is that some/many in the southern US tend to focus on other aspects of them.
We all have historical figures that are celebrated for the good things they did, while their bad deeds are ignored. Almost all historical figures did some fucked up shit, or had unacceptable ideas, if you judge them by todays standards.
We have many statues here in Canada that are of explorers and settlers of the country. Those people did some great things. But ask the natives if they had a bad side.
They did, but we're not going to deny it, and I hope we don't start pulling our monuments.
Once you start pulling down monuments because the figure is politically incorrect, then all monuments are now at risk. Because none that are old, are correct today.
It's not like you see statues of Erwin Rommel in Germany for example
Anything remotely connected with Nazis is taboo, so that's a bit of an exception. But there are many monuments to 'the enemy' all over the world. Here's one. I can provide many more examples, but I assume you get my point.
What I clearly miss from Trump is seperating "violence" and an attack..
I agree that it was the wrong time for the comment. When the car-murder happened he should have condemned it, and left it at that. But I think his point is a valid one. It was just expressed in the wrong way, at the wrong time.
No matter what "escalations back and forth" there is no measure, justification ... This should be pointed out, denounced and rejected by everyone..
I didn't see anyone defend it, or try to justify it.
Do I expect brawls, riots and bullshit when two opposite protestors meet? Yes..
..was begging for it..
Do I expect a terrorist attack with a car? No, that's another level.
So it's all fine as long as it is baseball bats, bike locks, knives, maces, and rifles. But if a car is used, it changes from 'protestors meeting' to 'terrorist'?
Also I don't think its a good idea to call it a terrorist attack. Calling it so just muddies the waters and pushes any solutions further away.
It was not an attack on the public. It was targeted at Antifa. It was not an isolated incedent either. It was a part of hostilities that had been occurring all day.
Calling it terrorism allows people to dismiss any attempt to deal with the problems that led to it. This was preventable, and if nobody is allowed to speak openly and honestly about it, it will be repeated.
Now please, understand, none of what I said is an attempt to 'justify' or minimize anything. Anyone who thinks that is missing my point.
..those usually don't end in murder and death though..
..have been coming more from the right this year..
I don't have any numbers for this year. But over the last couple years I believe the left has the higher body-count.
It does not matter though, murder and violence are not appropriate ways to share ideas, no matter what their politics are.
All sides should be held to the same standard.
Driving a car into a crowd, or organizing a violent, armed attack differ only in degree.
If one is terrorism, so is the other. But I think we would be better off not labeling either as terrorism, because they're something different.
To me, and many others, terrorism is an attack on civilians with the intent of creating fear in the public, to further a political goal.
Not a lot can be done about that, so people don't try.
I think we could have prevented this, but not if people can't talk about it openly and honestly.
Incidents involving serious attacks and even deaths have been coming more from the right this year i think, as seen on wikipedia: Right wing incidents involving deaths 2017: 4
The Portland train attack was by a Bernie Bro, so 3.
No other leftist fatalities this year, no (unless Islamic terrorism counts), but that seems largely due to luck and/or incompetence. The baseball shooting, for example.
He is digging his own grave. After his last statement there already where no Republicans willing to back him up or excuse him. This is only making it worse and loses him even more grip on the republican party for his plans. I don't think he will make christmas if he keeps this up.